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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:34 am

Oracle wrote:@DX - You said it! If SVG thinks that picking up Lucas made us complete, he needs to think again! We need to take some risk and make a move that falls into the big picture of this team. Our SF position is a steaming pile at this point, we need somebody that can play that position every night, not one night in ten!
Say what you will, but our combined contribution from the SF's tonight was terrible!! 7 points, 5 rebounds in 48 minutes of play; our starter played 32 minutes and 5 of the points and 3 of the rebounds....we don't need to roll the dice on someone/anyone else?!

@Fly - You said it! Drummond gets schooled by every Euro Gump in the league! WTF, PekerBitch goes off for damn near 30? Where is the damn defense? You can't be an elite big in this league and take ass whoopings like that!
IMHO this is a case of "the chickens coming home to roost" for firing Rasheed as Drummonds big man coach; who's taken on his defensive/offensive  development since then is the question in my mind....certainly Monroe is not to be considered a role model.

Ok, I expected Singler to get his ass kicked, but Wiggins didn't even do as much as he could have against Singler. I just didn't expect to be giving up so many points by the big men!
True, Monroe and Drummond got their asses kicked, but they were outclassed by a true beast, who was out for blood, but why are we all expecting for Singler to get his ass kicked? Tonight was unexpected for our big men, but every night I'm looking for Singler to get his ass kicked; I'm pleasantly surprised when he doesn't, which is rare.

SVG needs to make a move and also get somebody in here that can help Andre learn to defend!!!
If a move is not made by the trade deadline, Van Gundy and Bower aren't doing their jobs to the best of their abilities; upgrading the SF spot doesn't require a major move...we aren't trying to replace Jennings for God's sake!
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Stat Padding

Post  WTF on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:33 am

Sparma wrote:He won the rebounding battle against his opposing center 14 to 3.  Sounds like a good night for Drummond.  Hardly.

He's got a big problem that he could improve on immediately, but at a cost to other aspects of his games: he needs to body up on big centers like Pekovic, who killed him inside tonight for 29.  Why doesn't he?  First, I agree with Mayo's suggestion that he's trying to cut down on fouls, so that he doesn't engage in physical battles nearly as much as he can and should.  The second and third reasons are controversial, based partly on my own experience as a player.  When you body up inside, you cut back on your chances for blocks and troubling shots.  Andre's so intent on shotblocking that he backs away a bit so that his jumping ability is hindered.  The third reason for him refusing to body up as he's supposed to will sound nuttier: if you're fully engaged with someone it puts you in a position to gain contested rebounds against that person but it cuts down on your general jumping/ rebounding ability.  On the whole, if you're in body to body combat, you're going to lose some rebounds.  I believe that Dennis Rodman was well aware of this and that Drummond is too.  A fourth reason for Drummond not bodying up enough is simply that he often not in the right position.  He doesn't have a keen sense of positioning yet, something that he may well acquire over the years (this deficiency puts him in contrast to Rodman and to Ben Wallace).

Against a big center who's capable offensively inside you need to body up or you're going to get destroyed.  That's what happened tonight, the pretty rebounding numbers notwithstanding.  

Just sad plain sad facepalm
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STOP IT!!!!!!!!!

Post  WTF on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:27 am

Stop shooting so many freaking 3's...yeah it looks fun when the shots are falling but the team doesn't shoot consistently enough that its the best offense for this team. JUST STOP IT!!!!!!

He isn't Super Glue, nor Gorilla Glue, hell he's not Crazy Glue I'm not even sure he's Elmer's Glue but he plays 32 minutes Geeesh!!!!!! facepalm

30 games left in the season facepalm How many of them we win?
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Looks like I'm in agreement with Flip

Post  Sparma on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:20 pm

Flip, quoted at mlive: "He had a good start and good finish," said Minnesota coach Flip Saunders. "It's interesting because Drummond is one of the better defensive centers in the league but he loves to block shots. In order to block shots he wants to give a little bit of space.

"If you give Pek space, he's just too big."
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Drummond

Post  Sparma on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:14 pm

He won the rebounding battle against his opposing center 14 to 3.  Sounds like a good night for Drummond.  Hardly.

He's got a big problem that he could improve on immediately, but at a cost to other aspects of his games: he needs to body up on big centers like Pekovic, who killed him inside tonight for 29. Why doesn't he? First, I agree with Mayo's suggestion that he's trying to cut down on fouls, so that he doesn't engage in physical battles nearly as much as he can and should. The second and third reasons are controversial, based partly on my own experience as a player. When you body up inside, you cut back on your chances for blocks and troubling shots. Andre's so intent on shotblocking that he backs away a bit so that his jumping ability is hindered. The third reason for him refusing to body up as he's supposed to will sound nuttier: if you're fully engaged with someone it puts you in a position to gain contested rebounds against that person but it cuts down on your general jumping/ rebounding ability. On the whole, if you're in body to body combat, you're going to lose some rebounds. I believe that Dennis Rodman was well aware of this and that Drummond is too. A fourth reason for Drummond not bodying up enough is simply that he often not in the right position. He doesn't have a keen sense of positioning yet, something that he may well acquire over the years (this deficiency puts him in contrast to Rodman and to Ben Wallace).

Against a big center who's capable offensively inside you need to body up or you're going to get destroyed. That's what happened tonight, the pretty rebounding numbers notwithstanding.
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Fly & DX... You both said it!

Post  Oracle on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:32 pm

@DX - You said it! If SVG thinks that picking up Lucas made us complete, he needs to think again! We need to take some risk and make a move that falls into the big picture of this team. Our SF position is a steaming pile at this point, we need somebody that can play that position every night, not one night in ten!

@Fly - You said it! Drummond gets schooled by every Euro Gump in the league! WTF, PekerBitch goes off for damn near 30? Where is the damn defense? You can't be an elite big in this league and take ass whoopings like that!

Ok, I expected Singler to get his ass kicked, but Wiggins didn't even do as much as he could have against Singler. I just didn't expect to be giving up so many points by the big men!

SVG needs to make a move and also get somebody in here that can help Andre learn to defend!!!
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A robot vacuum tried to eat its sleeping owner's head

Post  Oracle on Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:03 pm



Oops lol

A robot vacuum tried to eat its sleeping owner's head
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OMG No Contradictions

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:53 pm

Oracle wrote:
Wise wrote:Okay if I somehow came off as dissolving the coach of any then I apologize because a coach does bear some responsibility toward the outcome of games but I'm still of strong belief that ultimately its talent of the players that matters the most.

You're right I predicted a 15 game increase in wins this season but not solely on the basis of a new coaching change. I believed that another year of Josh and Brandon getting accumulated, Joe's departure, some improvement in player development particularly that of Andres and KCP and the addition of SVG would translate into the additional 15 games.

The reason why I dispute the argument of coach or players is the over-kill on the talent level of our players and amount of blame levied at coaches. My argument isn't new because I've made this case/argument with Cheeks, Frank and Flip at the helm of this team. Now correct me if I'm wrong here but what I gather more times than not in the criticism of most coaches is that that they should win game regardless of the talent level. I don't really believe that's the case but that's how it often comes off.

I'm not for scapegoating coaches because players blow assignments, lack in effort consistently, can't hit a FT or block a shot. These are still the responsibilities of the player and their ability to perform these things. I'm sorry but this seem to greatly impact the out-come of games more than coaching itself.

I still make my claim that the team isn't the same team even though the personal changes weren't that significant and I might even say we lost a little something in not having Stuckey or Bynum talent wise. Let me also add this if it was all about coaching then we wouldn't moan about the talent of our players. In this case Kyle is all Don say's he is, Josh was never a problem, and Moose should get a max deal pronto



What a mass of confusion, flip flopping, and contradictions!

Wise, I love you, but this doesn't make any sense  lol lol lol

No contradictions from my perspective, no flip flopping I'm just simply saying that there are no definitive conclusions what the complete and total impacts coaches have. I strongly believe that coaches coach to the strengths of players. But I also understand that some coaches are able to get a little more out of less than some other coaches.

When I think in terms of players a turd is a turd but often expectation of coaches are to turn them into diamond. IMO the contradiction comes from many of you, but I think its a result of how most of you view the players which we clearly disagree on more time than not. Our opinions vary on our main players for example Monroe, or how we view the glue status of Singler and definitely how we viewed Knight, and Josh.

It seems that at times our players get view as if they've already reach their potential and that somehow the coach is screwing up. I look at it that our players are simply not that talented and think the coach simply need better players. There's no contradiction in that thinking. The rational goes beyond the simple black and white conclusions that you all have when it comes to coaching and if any contradiction exist it comes with the debates we have about needs that question the talent level we have then wanting to blame a coach when we see the flaws and yet still question his abilities.

Also no contradiction in comments about the 44 win prediction either. 1. I thought that the addition of SVG improved our win totals, 2. I though Josh and Jennings in a second season would also improve the win totals. 3. I thought the absence of Joe would also improve the win totals. 4. I also factor in all the small intangibles like players contract years, and some luck. This is how I concluded my 44 win prediction not solely on the fact that we had a new coach and everything should be different.



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Great Response...

Post  Oracle on Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:06 pm

deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:This bothered me, and I had to search myself to figure out why.
I'm still going through the pockets of my mind.

Turns out my reaction is from the many years of Joe saying that when everybody knew we really needed to do something!
That "something" was always improving on Stuckey in the starting lineup; trade for a starter and relegate Stuckey to the bench....never done.

In reality, I can understand why SVG may not be in the market, there's not really much there for us right now, and we have no compelling reason to risk assets doing it!
It depends on what you call an asset; "You really need to use your imagination a bit more! Stop looking for ways to lose and look for ways to win." That was suggested to me by a very wise man; J.J., Butler, Datome, Martin, for Wilson Chandler to relegate Singler to the bench? Ask not, have not. But of course if he's indispensable and the basketball world of the Pistons spins on this guy, then by all means, stand pat. - Guilty as charged!

Detroit Pistons Could Stay Quiet at NBA Trade Deadline

You're 100% right, it really is a question of what you consider an asset!

DX, this is why you're so great! I gave up way too easily, and you called me on it! SVG may see some players as part of our chemistry, but there is a risk/reward option to move some players and just like with Jennings, come back together.

The way SVG is using JJ, Datome, & Martin makes them all expendable, and Butler is a non-factor except in the locker room, which is important, but is part of the risk!

I wouldn't want to trade Singler, but it also depends on what we could get back... you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

BTW, this is another BIG game(Wolves) that we need to win!!!
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OMG

Post  Oracle on Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:55 pm

Wise wrote:Okay if I somehow came off as dissolving the coach of any then I apologize because a coach does bear some responsibility toward the outcome of games but I'm still of strong belief that ultimately its talent of the players that matters the most.

You're right I predicted a 15 game increase in wins this season but not solely on the basis of a new coaching change. I believed that another year of Josh and Brandon getting accumulated, Joe's departure, some improvement in player development particularly that of Andres and KCP and the addition of SVG would translate into the additional 15 games.

The reason why I dispute the argument of coach or players is the over-kill on the talent level of our players and amount of blame levied at coaches. My argument isn't new because I've made this case/argument with Cheeks, Frank and Flip at the helm of this team. Now correct me if I'm wrong here but what I gather more times than not in the criticism of most coaches is that that they should win game regardless of the talent level. I don't really believe that's the case but that's how it often comes off.

I'm not for scapegoating coaches because players blow assignments, lack in effort consistently, can't hit a FT or block a shot. These are still the responsibilities of the player and their ability to perform these things. I'm sorry but this seem to greatly impact the out-come of games more than coaching itself.

I still make my claim that the team isn't the same team even though the personal changes weren't that significant and I might even say we lost a little something in not having Stuckey or Bynum talent wise. Let me also add this if it was all about coaching then we wouldn't moan about the talent of our players. In this case Kyle is all Don say's he is, Josh was never a problem, and Moose should get a max deal pronto



What a mass of confusion, flip flopping, and contradictions!

Wise, I love you, but this doesn't make any sense  lol lol lol
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Oracle and Wise Search For Balance....LMAO!!!!

Post  WTF on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:03 am

Oracle wrote:
WiseFan wrote:Kyle, Pope, Monroe, Andre, JJ, Josh, Mitchell, Jennings is what SVG started with and 7 of those guys were major contributors on the roster with exception of Mitchell when you look at the significant pieces it's still Joes team.

To SVG credit he was able to move Josh but with mixed emotions from those wanting Josh gone and how it was done. Still there have been no major reshaping of this roster even though Meeks, Augustin, Joel, Tolliver, Dinwiddie, and Martin been added to replace Stuckey, Will, and Charlie in which 2 of those guys played major roles what SVG replaced them with aren't major game changing pieces. This **** is still largely Joe's **** swapping role players doesn't equate to major changes from last season.

SVG major move was giving up Josh for basically nothing and has long term implication if he's not replaced on this roster and more so if the team loses Moose without the benefit of a sign and trade. Imagine the headlines then losing Josh and then Moose while gaining nothing in return but it will provide SVG opportunity to put his personal stamp on the team. Then we can truly judge him from that stand point.
I agree with you, but it raises questions, and btw, you really have to separate SVG the coach from SVG the GM.

OMG, of course, this is true, but when I argued that same point, you didn't agree... and here's why!

Because at the time we were having the discussion of is it the players or the coaching that makes a team run, and of course both you and Don said it's basically all the players, the coach has little effect!

I bow in respect to Don for having the self confidence to come out and admit that he could have been wrong, let's hope you can do the same.

First, you picked the team to win 44 games, but how could you do that when it was basically the same team that couldn't win 30? You must have believed the talent was there, or why the change to predict an uptick of so many games? If a team has talent and they don't produce, is it sun spots or coaching?

In truth, the only thing of significance to change was the COACH!

But this coach found a way to make this team not only win, but win in an exciting fashion. In fact, despite the fact that he loses significant parts, the team keeps rolling along, not as good as before, but amazingly well... with still an outside chance of making the playoffs!

The bottom line is that talent used properly produces much greater results, and they call that process coaching!

...............................................................................................................................................

Okay if I somehow came off as dissolving the coach of any then I apologize because a coach does bear some responsibility toward the outcome of games but I'm still of strong belief that ultimately its talent of the players that matters the most.

You're right I predicted a 15 game increase in wins this season but not solely on the basis of a new coaching change. I believed that another year of Josh and Brandon getting accumulated, Joe's departure, some improvement in player development particularly that of Andres and KCP and the addition of SVG would translate into the additional 15 games.

The reason why I dispute the argument of coach or players is the over-kill on the talent level of our players and amount of blame levied at coaches. My argument isn't new because I've made this case/argument with Cheeks, Frank and Flip at the helm of this team. Now correct me if I'm wrong here but what I gather more times than not in the criticism of most coaches is that that they should win game regardless of the talent level. I don't really believe that's the case but that's how it often comes off.

I'm not for scapegoating coaches because players blow assignments, lack in effort consistently, can't hit a FT or block a shot. These are still the responsibilities of the player and their ability to perform these things. I'm sorry but this seem to greatly impact the out-come of games more than coaching itself.

I still make my claim that the team isn't the same team even though the personal changes weren't that significant and I might even say we lost a little something in not having Stuckey or Bynum talent wise. Let me also add this if it was all about coaching then we wouldn't moan about the talent of our players. In this case Kyle is all Don say's he is, Josh was never a problem, and Moose should get a max deal pronto lol




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Detroit Pistons Could Stay Quiet at NBA Trade Deadline

Post  deusXango on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:47 am

Oracle wrote:This bothered me, and I had to search myself to figure out why.
I'm still going through the pockets of my mind.

Turns out my reaction is from the many years of Joe saying that when everybody knew we really needed to do something!
That "something" was always improving on Stuckey in the starting lineup; trade for a starter and relegate Stuckey to the bench....never done.

In reality, I can understand why SVG may not be in the market, there's not really much there for us right now, and we have no compelling reason to risk assets doing it!
It depends on what you call an asset; "You really need to use your imagination a bit more! Stop looking for ways to lose and look for ways to win." That was suggested to me by a very wise man; J.J., Butler, Datome, Martin, for Wilson Chandler to relegate Singler to the bench? Ask not, have not. But of course if he's indispensable and the basketball world of the Pistons spins on this guy, then by all means, stand pat.

Detroit Pistons Could Stay Quiet at NBA Trade Deadline
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Tell me about it... STUD!

Post  Oracle on Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:08 am

Pistons big men Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe are the NBA’s top rebounding duo, combining for 23.5 a game. Drummond is averaging 13.0 a game, Monroe 10.5 a game.

D.J. Augustin has become the Pistons’ starting point guard and is averaging 20.4 points and 9.0 assists in his past seven games since moving into the starting lineup.



We are lucky to have two young bigs this good!
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From a Rockets Site

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:14 pm

Article wrote:1. Mr. Smith goes to work: As often as James Harden has faced traps on screens and even double-teams before screens can be set, few teams commit to taking the ball out of Harden’s hands with the determination the Bucks showed and fewer still can do it with a flying 6-11 small forward bringing the double-team. Even without Giannis Antetokounmpo coming at him, Harden can expect to see more of the same. The Rockets’ answer on Friday was to put Josh Smith in the middle of the floor to receive Harden’s pass out of the double-team and then have Smith break the defense down, often sending passes to the corners for 3s. Smith had eight assists and set up several other baskets that came after good ball movement. Much of that started with the Rockets response to the Bucks’ defensive game plan, but it also points to how important the pickup of Smith has become, especially with Dwight Howard out, and Smith basically playing backup center. Smith matched his career high with four 3s and led the Rockets with 10 rebounds. But his playmaking has become central to the Rockets’ game plan, and an indication of how important to them he can be.

Article wrote:5. Believing in the Bucks: The Bucks have already exceeded expectations, with Giannis Antetokounmpo looking like a future All Star, Brandon Knight having an All Star-worthy season and Jason Kidd turning the Bucks into one of the NBA’s top defensive teams. All of that is with rookie Jabari Parker out and center Larry Sanders hurt and suspended. There is no telling what the Bucks will get from Sanders in the coming years, but Parker should have a fine, long career. For all the times that the Bucks seemed to be a franchise going nowhere, they have improved so much on the court that calling them that is now a good thing, with the new ownership group, previous owner and state of Wisconsin making significant progress on a deal for a new arena that would keep the Bucks in Milwaukee. They might not have the superstar that is so often considered the key to being a contender, but they have come so far so rapidly and could be so balanced in coming years when Parker is back, that they are a team on the rise in the East, which is already a huge step up from the worst record in the league just last season.

Five things gleaned from the Rockets’ victory over the Bucks
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Detroit Pistons Could Stay Quiet at NBA Trade Deadline

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:11 pm

This bothered me, and I had to search myself to figure out why.

Turns out my reaction is from the many years of Joe saying that when everybody knew we really needed to do something!

In reality, I can understand why SVG may not be in the market, there's not really much there for us right now, and we have no compelling reason to risk assets doing it!

Detroit Pistons Could Stay Quiet at NBA Trade Deadline
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DX

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:05 pm

deusXango wrote:Oracle, were you suggesting in any way that Phil Jackson would trade Carmelo Anthony to get enough pieces to satisfy SVG and sign Greg Monroe to a max contract? Yeah, my faith is lacking on that one.

"The Knicks have Carmelo Anthony for Christ's sake, did you forget about that?

Let's stretch our vision just a tad and realize that they're capable of using a S&T with him, and it boggles the mind who they could get with that piece, so POOF goes you argument!"
-Oracle

Please tell me that I misinterpreted you.

You really need to use your imagination a bit more! Stop looking for ways to lose and look for ways to win.

If they keep Melo, they can't afford Monroe(except for using a S&T), which means that a 3rd team would have to be involved, but you're totally missing the point, and I pointed it out clearly.

FORGET NY, think about the process of implementing a S&T!

The point you keep missing is that it will likely take 3 teams to do it right unless one team has all of the assets we need to make it work! Just focus on that, and remember this one thing when you post...

Just because you said ONLY NY, doesn't make it true  lol

IMO, NY is making a mistake to build around Melo at this stage of his career! If I was Jackson, I'd be looking to move Melo for one of the young upcoming studs and complementing pieces like Monroe! At Melo's age, injuries may come up at any time, you never know, it's a risky strategy if you plan on winning a 'ship in 3-5 years with LeBron, Love & Irving in your conference, the 'ship window looks bleak for them IMO.
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Oh ye of little vision...

Post  deusXango on Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:45 pm

Oracle, were you suggesting in any way that Phil Jackson would trade Carmelo Anthony to get enough pieces to satisfy SVG and sign Greg Monroe to a max contract? Yeah, my faith is lacking on that one.

"The Knicks have Carmelo Anthony for Christ's sake, did you forget about that?

Let's stretch our vision just a tad and realize that they're capable of using a S&T with him, and it boggles the mind who they could get with that piece, so POOF goes you argument!"
-Oracle

Please tell me that I misinterpreted you.
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:37 pm

Oracle wrote:I had high hopes that moving Josh was going to work for both parties!

Josh had a monster game against the Bucks! He went for, hold you hats, 14 points, 10 boards, 8 assists, 1 steal and 1 blocked shot!!!

Talk about stuffing a stat sheet, that's damn near a triple double... Go get'um Josh!!!
All that on our dime...great. facepalm The Josh Smith Fan Club lives on.
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Josh has another great game!!!

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:19 pm

I had high hopes that moving Josh was going to work for both parties!

Josh had a monster game against the Bucks! He went for, hold you hats, 14 points, 10 boards, 8 assists, 1 steal and 1 blocked shot!!!

Talk about stuffing a stat sheet, that's damn near a triple double... Go get'um Josh!!!
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In praise of Don by way of Wise

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:09 pm

WiseFan wrote:Kyle, Pope, Monroe, Andre, JJ, Josh, Mitchell, Jennings is what SVG started with and 7 of those guys were major contributors on the roster with exception of Mitchell when you look at the significant pieces it's still Joes team.

To SVG credit he was able to move Josh but with mixed emotions from those wanting Josh gone and how it was done. Still there have been no major reshaping of this roster even though Meeks, Augustin, Joel, Tolliver, Dinwiddie, and Martin been added to replace Stuckey, Will, and Charlie in which 2 of those guys played major roles what SVG replaced them with aren't major game changing pieces. This **** is still largely Joe's **** swapping role players doesn't equate to major changes from last season.

SVG major move was giving up Josh for basically nothing and has long term implication if he's not replaced on this roster and more so if the team loses Moose without the benefit of a sign and trade. Imagine the headlines then losing Josh and then Moose while gaining nothing in return but it will provide SVG opportunity to put his personal stamp on the team. Then we can truly judge him from that stand point.
I agree with you, but it raises questions, and btw, you really have to separate SVG the coach from SVG the GM.

OMG, of course, this is true, but when I argued that same point, you didn't agree... and here's why!

Because at the time we were having the discussion of is it the players or the coaching that makes a team run, and of course both you and Don said it's basically all the players, the coach has little effect!

I bow in respect to Don for having the self confidence to come out and admit that he could have been wrong, let's hope you can do the same.

First, you picked the team to win 44 games, but how could you do that when it was basically the same team that couldn't win 30? You must have believed the talent was there, or why the change to predict an uptick of so many games? If a team has talent and they don't produce, is it sun spots or coaching?

In truth, the only thing of significance to change was the COACH!

But this coach found a way to make this team not only win, but win in an exciting fashion. In fact, despite the fact that he loses significant parts, the team keeps rolling along, not as good as before, but amazingly well... with still an outside chance of making the playoffs!

The bottom line is that talent used properly produces much greater results, and they call that process coaching!

...............................................................................................................................................
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Oh ye of little vision...

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:51 pm

deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:
On Monroe walking, my position is that if we can keep him at a reasonable price, I'm all for keeping him! If he wants max money, and a team will pay it, we can facilitate a S&T to make it happen.
Oracle, the popular opinion for who has "the hots" for Monroe is the Knicks; what type of S&T would/could we do with the Knicks that'd make sense? Assuming they won't give up their first round pick and Melo is out of the question, what do they have of value? IMHO that's the same as walking for nothing.

It's not only the Knicks, but even if it was, why is your vision so limited?

The Knicks have Carmelo Anthony for Christ's sake, did you forget about that?

Let's stretch our vision just a tad and realize that they're capable of using a S&T with him, and it boggles the mind who they could get with that piece, so POOF goes you argument!

If you've read my posts previously on the subject, you would know that I've always said it's likely a 3rd team would be involved in the case where a team initially has limited talent of interest!
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MY 2 PENNIES WORTH

Post  WTF on Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:56 pm

deusXango wrote:
merc wrote:It's only fair to let SVG have time to reshape the roster... too soon to be throwing out negative vibes based on what he inherited... Remember how LB started... I can respect that he is not willing to accept failure... it could lead to early heart failure... but at least give the man some space to work. eat  
Kyle Singler.

Merc, why does SVG keep running Singler out there, in a starting capacity, for still another 2 point night? 28 minutes to score 2 points and "grab" 3 rebounds is the best we can do for a starting SF?

I get that SVG is working with Dumars leftovers, but how many are on the active roster and more importantly, how many are in his rotation? Drummond's supposed to be the centerpiece, SVG's in love with Monroe, and KCP is being relied on for maximum minutes and defensive effort, so subtract them from the equation and what do you have left? This really doesn't seem to be Dumars team any longer.

Kyle, Pope, Monroe, Andre, JJ, Josh, Mitchell, Jennings is what SVG started with and 7 of those guys were major contributors on the roster with exception of Mitchell when you look at the significant pieces it's still Joes team.

To SVG credit he was able to move Josh but with mixed emotions from those wanting Josh gone and how it was done. Still there have been no major reshaping of this roster even though Meeks, Augustin, Joel, Tolliver, Dinwiddie, and Martin been added to replace Stuckey, Will, and Charlie in which 2 of those guys played major roles what SVG replaced them with aren't major game changing pieces. This **** is still largely Joe's **** swapping role players doesn't equate to major changes from last season.

SVG major move was giving up Josh for basically nothing and has long term implication if he's not replaced on this roster and more so if the team loses Moose without the benefit of a sign and trade. Imagine the headlines then losing Josh and then Moose while gaining nothing in return but it will provide SVG opportunity to put his personal stamp on the team. Then we can truly judge him from that stand point.
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:56 am

merc wrote:It's only fair to let SVG have time to reshape the roster... too soon to be throwing out negative vibes based on what he inherited... Remember how LB started... I can respect that he is not willing to accept failure... it could lead to early heart failure... but at least give the man some space to work. eat  
Kyle Singler.

Merc, why does SVG keep running Singler out there, in a starting capacity, for still another 2 point night? 28 minutes to score 2 points and "grab" 3 rebounds is the best we can do for a starting SF?

I get that SVG is working with Dumars leftovers, but how many are on the active roster and more importantly, how many are in his rotation? Drummond's supposed to be the centerpiece, SVG's in love with Monroe, and KCP is being relied on for maximum minutes and defensive effort, so subtract them from the equation and what do you have left? This really doesn't seem to be Dumars team any longer.
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Hmmmm

Post  deusXango on Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:41 am

Oracle wrote:
On Monroe walking, my position is that if we can keep him at a reasonable price, I'm all for keeping him! If he wants max money, and a team will pay it, we can facilitate a S&T to make it happen.
Oracle, the popular opinion for who has "the hots" for Monroe is the Knicks; what type of S&T would/could we do with the Knicks that'd make sense? Assuming they won't give up their first round pick and Melo is out of the question, what do they have of value? IMHO that's the same as walking for nothing.
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Fly, you're not totally wrong...

Post  Oracle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:04 am

FlyDog wrote:Pistons need to score 110 to win, and should let Mornroe walk.  Er.......uh......

There's a few very good reasons that we won like we did!

1. Monroe had a matchup made in heaven! He had the smallish Faried, who he outweighs and is damn near twice the size of and he just dominated his ass all night long!

2. Any night when you go 4-24 from deep(16%), you need to be playing the 3 Stooges or the Washington Generals to eek out a win, and the Denver Nuggets fit that bill! The Generals, er., I mean the Nuggets shot a paltry 22% from deep, and 39% overall. We could say it was our defense, but who are we kidding lol

Having said that, ANY game you walk away from with a "W" is a good game in this posters opinion!

On Monroe walking, my position is that if we can keep him at a reasonable price, I'm all for keeping him! If he wants max money, and a team will pay it, we can facilitate a S&T to make it happen.

So the bottom line is that if this was a halfway decent team, it would have been a lot tougher contest and we probably would have needed 8-12 more points! That 4th quarter was BRUTAL, I think we only shot 24%!

But I caution on giving up on young players! Last year Monroe could barely hit one of two FT's, he was only slightly better than Drummond. Fast forward to this year and he's one of our better FT shooters, he rarely misses.

Young players can and do change, and players like Monroe who are smart and work hard will improve given time and good coaching!
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Re: FORUM

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