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DX for the defense

Post  deusXango on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:05 am

WISEFAN wrote:QM is not an unknown commodity and has every opportunity to make a case for an NBA career lets not forget the fact that he was in Denver and was released by them.   QM is not some kid we just drafted like a Dinwiddie that you could make an argument for opportunity for.
Wise, no matter how he got here, he's here and should be accorded the same consideration that any young player the Pistons acquire, is all I'm saying. Please answer me honestly, so we can move on from this debate, do you see more game in Singler than you do in Miller, potentially? I mention Singler because he started at SF until he was traded.

I'm not sure why anyone would be so strong an advocate for a player that was cut and the rest of the teams in the league aren't hot after.  It's okay to like a player and want to see him get a chance but in the case of QM he has had opportunities.  Should he have gotten a chance here I would say yes just based on the turds we had at SF playing in front of him in a season going nowhere.  IMO his ass should follow the entire bunch of SF on this team out the door because I'm tired of projects and rejects. I'm not sure where QM falls considering he couldn't make it in Denver.
Because the Pistons were the first team to grab him from the D-League, where he was the #1 rated player at the time, doesn't mean "the rest of the teams in the league aren't hot after," it means the Pistons didn't snore on this guy like they did Robert Covington. As far as being cut by Denver, Brian Shaw cut him; you do remember Brian Shaw and what he meant to the Nuggets don't you? Miller was playing behind Kenneth Faried, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, and Darrell Arthur....that looks like a numbers game to me and I'd have taken Faried, Gallinari, or Chandler over any of our SF's! As a matter of fact, Wilson Chandler name comes up regularly as a target for the Pistons, but because Miller didn't outshine those guys, he ain"t sh!t is what I hear you saying. Okay.

I think since we have had success with players like Chauncey, and drafted the likes of Worm,  and acquired a Big Ben. We know have this false illusion that every player with get has this same potential no matter how we acquired them (Draft, Trade, or Free Agency) I also think that the bad habit of throwing away talent before its time was an issue as well that led to this thinking.  Lets not make the mistake of thinking QM is a Middleton, Affalo, Bonzi Wells or Amir that we might have given up on prematurely.
facepalm   

Sadly we see this flash of potential early on with some players and 5 seasons later we're still waiting for it to manifest into stardom. We did it with Stuckey though a large part of the blame can go to coaching and Joe, we did it with Monroe who we should have traded after his second season. I'm laughing at the article posted on the side about KCP big jump! I must have missed it.
So far as Miller goes, I'm not advocating giving him a 5 year test run, like some mediocre players have been given here, but 1 year to prove or disprove his worth, and during that year be grooming the certain #8 draft pick to the nuances of the NBA...it's a win situation anyway you look at it.

This team has stunk for so long that we've forgotten what type of players made up our championship teams that we settle and find hope in the most unlikely players.  The kind of hope being placed on QM should be reserved for lottery picks, star college players and proven winners at the college level.
QM played for one of the worst college coaches on the NCAA level of major competition, and no one is anointing him to be a savior, I'm just saying that he can be a contributing piece on a contending team, and I believe he'll fit in nicely with our core group of young players. With all this great coaching SVG is said to bring to the table, how come it doesn't factor into Miller's development?

I don't really care if he's 110 lbs or 5"1 what I care about is can he impacts W's for the team, and what's already on his resume and he doesn't have a strong resume at this point.  He is unproven even as a role player, I don't mind keeping him on the team and in uniform but I be damn if he should be considered as an alternative for a starting or reliable backup SF.
What would be the point of keeping a 22 year old on your roster if you're predisposed to not considering him for anything from starting to backup duty? A player you find unreliable and lacking in enough skills/talent to get any PT, you wouldn't mind keeping on the team? Outstanding. Peep this.
This is last April: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMhfcJpN9s

D League Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbItsBGblgk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AG_ajjnGho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Vijd0yCY0  

Also QM gets opportunity every time he shows up for practice to prove he deserves PT he doesn't deserve PT to prove he deserves PT.
**** I'm out.
Wise, you of all people should understand my passion for supporting a player that the whole world of basketball fans seem to hate; you championed Josh Smith, remember how that felt?
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LaMarcus

Post  WTF on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:17 am

Sebastian wrote:What about going hard after LaMarcus Aldridge in free agency?

A sign and trade scenario did cross my mind just not sure Portland would want to it or if Lamarcus would want to come here.  I do think LaMarcus would far better playing the East than in the West and he would look great along side Andre but only if Andre as a far better defender than he currently stands at.  

Even with LarMarcus injury history I would rather give him a Max Deal than I would Monroe
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My Views On QM

Post  WTF on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:12 am

QM is not an unknown commodity and has every opportunity to make a case for an NBA career lets not forget the fact that he was in Denver and was released by them. QM is not some kid we just drafted like a Dinwiddie that you could make an argument for opportunity for.

I'm not sure why anyone would be so strong an advocate for a player that was cut and the rest of the teams in the league aren't hot after. It's okay to like a player and want to see him get a chance but in the case of QM he has had opportunities. Should he have gotten a chance here I would say yes just based on the turds we had at SF playing in front of him in a season going nowhere. IMO his ass should follow the entire bunch of SF on this team out the door because I'm tired of projects and rejects. I'm not sure where QM falls considering he couldn't make it in Denver.

I think since we have had success with players like Chauncey, and drafted the likes of Worm, and acquired a Big Ben. We know have this false illusion that every player with get has this same potential no matter how we acquired them (Draft, Trade, or Free Agency) I also think that the bad habit of throwing away talent before its time was an issue as well that led to this thinking. Lets not make the mistake of thinking QM is a Middleton, Affalo, Bonzi Wells or Amir that we might have given up on prematurely.

Sadly we see this flash of potential early on with some players and 5 seasons later we're still waiting for it to manifest into stardom. We did it with Stuckey though a large part of the blame can go to coaching and Joe, we did it with Monroe who we should have traded after his second season. I'm laughing at the article posted on the side about KCP big jump! I must have missed it.

This team has stunk for so long that we've forgotten what type of players made up our championship teams that we settle and find hope in the most unlikely players. The kind of hope being placed on QM should be reserved for lottery picks, star college players and proven winners at the college level.

I don't really care if he's 110 lbs or 5"1 what I care about is can he impacts W's for the team, and what's already on his resume and he doesn't have a strong resume at this point. He is unproven even as a role player, I don't mind keeping him on the team and in uniform but I be damn if he should be considered as an alternative for a starting or reliable backup SF.

Also QM gets opportunity every time he shows up for practice to prove he deserves PT he doesn't deserve PT to prove he deserves PT.



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Another early morning vent

Post  deusXango on Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:51 am

I'm so sick and tired of low level journeymen looking for a payday in Detroit and actually getting some fan support to be here. This ain't a damn rest home for the played out! Chauncey came on board, and based on past performance we automatically embraced him, but he was past the end of the road; he came back here talking sh!t about being the starter and the next thing I know, Knight and Middleton are traded away and we bring in the unpopular and ill-fitting Jennings to be mentored, even after Chauncey said he wasn't mentoring any damn body. We see how that brain fart is working out.

SVG comes in, as a welcome replacement for Dumars, and the first thing he does is f@ck up the only viable resource we had (the CAP money) on the likes of, look at this closely now, Aaron Gray, Cartier Martin, and overpaying for Jodie Meeks, and Caron Butler; the only player that was a deal and worth every penny we paid him was D.J. Augustin and we ended up trading him away! Speaking of trades, we traded an end of the bench, lazy ass player named Tony Mitchell for Anthony Tolliver, who played major minutes and ended up starting at the end of the season. We're cheering that sh!t, but I'm dumbfounded! I can't see justifying benching and then trading away Jerebko for what should've amounted to an end of the bench player....J.J. had been here, excepted his role on the team, and was an expiring contract that SVG didn't have to bring back, if he didn't want him. Stan Van Gundy. This is the guy heading up the braintrust going into the draft and making FA decisions for the Pistons and their fans. The only thing I know he wants, because it's all he talks about, is Greg Monroe.

We're hung up on the west coast swag of Brandon Jennings, who many of us wanted gone longer than we wanted him here, to be totally honest, but we ignore the well balanced game of that Reggie Jackson has displayed and are actually entertaining the idea of an open competition for starting PG, if Jackson is re-signed. IMHO for what he does and the importance of the position he plays, he should be the number one priority for signing; there is no need for competition and Jennings should be rehabbing his injury until about 10 games before the trade deadline (show case his ass) and Spencer Dinwiddie should be the backup PG. I for one am tired of sentimentality calling shots on who plays and for how long, regardless of fitness and fit. I agree with Wise, every damn SF we have (except Quincy Miller) should be let go! I'm in QM's corner because he's an unknown and deserving of a chance, based on past practices extended to other less talented. I also notice that strong voices are raised against certain players that we could use like, Jackson and Miller; Jackson doesn't play defense, but neither did Jennings, and Miller gets skinnier and skinnier with each post (a young, 6 foot 10 inches of athletic skill and agility, who can shoot)...we need a team oriented PG and a SF that plays a SF game. Let's stop talking about what Jackson turned down in OKC and get our collective heads around paying the man max money; the same principles of the rising CAP next year will apply to Jackson also, he'll be a bargain! That 4/$48 million was for being a backup anyway and he wanted to start on a team of his own; it wasn't a greed based decision, like some I could name who we beat the drum for, but won't.

If we luck up and get the first pick, I'm for trading it to a lottery team for their pick this year and their #1 year after next; there is no Anthony Davis's or Kevin Durants coming out this year and whoever gets one of the top two players will be sucking two years from now also. We don't need Towns or Okafor, particularly Okafor. He's big, but if you find flaws in Drummond (21 year old top rebounder, who's still learning and developing) then wait'll you get a load of Okafor on the NBA floor...I really hope I'm wrong about the young man, but I saw a "weak," slow footed, white boy, who doesn't get the accolades from fans he should, kick his ass, straight up. Who am I talking about? You have to ask? Frank "the Tank" Kaminsky. he's a predicted bust in the eyes of many.
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2015 Draft talk and Free agents I like so far

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:32 pm

I like the big kid in Boston. Jae Crowder. Big, strong, athletic, and A great defender. This kid is on the up swing, guaranteed. I would get my hands on him if I'm Van Gundy. He is A free agent.


Staying with that them of A big kid with potential. I wold take A strong look at Stanley Johnson. He not going to destroy the league his first season but he is big, strong, smart and ready to defend from day 1. I like his mid-range game. I could live with this kid if he was the 8th selection. But what I perfer is for the Pistons to land the number 1 pick and them take Okafor out of Duke.
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LaMarcus Aldridge?

Post  Sebastian on Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:14 pm

What about going hard after LaMarcus Aldridge in free agency?
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:46 pm

It's simple we need to be going after sure things when we draft, trade or sign a free agent. I don't want this to just be a gathering of talent without a plan anymore, watching Joe screw up things virtually tossing away picks because fit and chemistry was never a factor.

Hill was the last and really the only SF that I can remember that impact games statistically and in the W/L columns, Corliss was a productive and consistent SF and Prince was a reliable asset in his prime. No more hoping that a second rounder or some CBA graduate is going to make a difference it would be nice if QM ended up being another John Stark story or something similar I just don't see it.

I want another Hill, hell I want another Corliss or another Tayshuan with bigger balls. We need to get rid of every SF on the team and raise those standard many have happily lowered. I don't care how SVG get it done draft, trade or free agency just get it done.

With 5 consecutive lottery pick we should be a hell of lot better IMO....Damn

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Mario Hezonja downside

Post  cool breeze on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:39 pm

This pick will get the Pistons another inept defender. Can the team afford that? And another clue as to why he would not be a solid selection as a first rounder is the fact that his specialty is driving to the basket. Experts say it will take time for him to develop as solid 3 point shot. But this nonsense about having special ability to drive to the basket is fools gold. In Euro basketball, anyone can drive to the basket and look like a real athletic player. It is very difficult to drive to the hoop and be successful in the NBA. Big men with the exception of our big men can defend the paint better. They will knock you down with of course the exception of our big men. Meanwhile, we could get that great Wisconsin big man who in my mind was the best big man in college basketball. He is a special player. Or possibly we could get Stanley Johnson but I have my doubts that he will not go higher when he attends the Chicago combine. Johnson is a powerful driving with an amazing first step. He also has a highly developed mid range game and is a great free throw shooter in the clutch. Johnson is a solid winning type basketball player like that amazing former Spartan who kicked ass for Golden State in this last series. He can defend anyone including power forwards. And he rebounds well. This is a no brainer. If Van Gundy selects Hezonja he is not serious about creating a winning team within the next 5 years. The Pistons cannot afford to gamble with their 8th pick.

How about a trade attempt to lure Green to the Pistons in exchange for Monroe? Someone would have slip Steve Kerr a mind changing drug to make that happen. But a guy like Green would change the entire culture at the Palace.

We can rest easy knowing that Martin most likely will be back in uniform next season. He has the option and would be insane to turn down that kind of money knowing that his skill set is among the worst in the entire NBA. Martin if you didn't notice was a horrible defender that matched his horrible outside shooting this season. Tolliver and Martin are not the answer Stan. He know it of course but most likely both will be back.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:20 pm

deusXango wrote:
merc wrote:QM?... pretty sure my biceps are as big as his thighs... this kid could snap like a twig under any physical pressure... Ausit Daye II
Not really like Austin Daye, by any stretch of the imagination. I don't doubt that you've worked on your "guns" Merc, but remember Kevin Garnett, Tayshaun Prince, and my all time favorite and one of the greatest shooters I've seen in the pros, George Gervin, when they came into the league? Too long and skinny; too light in the ass to compete was the knock, but look what they accomplished. I'm not saying QM is anywhere near Garnett or Gervin, but he damn sure ain't an Austin Daye.

Did anyone read the regular season grades for our SF's? Wasn't that a crock? How in the hell can you post a record like we just did and have the absolute worst SF's in the league getting maximum PT (thus contributing to that awful record) and be graded that high? Talk about spin doctoring.

I can't get this one moment out of my mind when thinking about Austin Daye and his experience with the Pistons. There was 14 seconds on the clock and Detroit had the basketball with the shot clock running down with a one point lead. The Pistons had been on a long losing streak and the crowd at the Palace was excited anticipating a hard fought win. Rodney Stuckey took a wild shot from the corner. Daye was standing beyond the free throw line. His job was to make sure there could be no chance of a fast break basket. Yes he was the man who was supposed to be back first on defense. Anyone who played high school basketball would get his ass kicked by his teammates if he didn't get back. But Daye got lost in the moment because of lack of mental discipline. Instead of running back or trying to intercept the pass that would have been coming right at him at half court, Daye decided to hit the boards leaving the entire team exposed. Sure enough the opposing team got an easy layup. I couldn't believe it. How far had the Pistons sunk. Imagine if Daye would have pulled that stunt while Zeke and Laimbeer were playing. Daye would have been black and blue for weeks. The Piston crowd never put 2 and 2 together and blamed Stuckey for shooting the wild shot was the shot clock was expiring. This was the NBA where the best of the best basketball players are supposed to be playing. That one mistake should have ended Austin Daye's career as an NBA player. So there is always more to the story than having weak arms and legs and looking like a stick on the floor next to real men. The mind does matter. That was another guy Joe Dumars admired. I still would be interested in What Dumars thought when he saw that play by his number one pick. He protected Daye for a long time and much longer than he deserved.

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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:01 am

merc wrote:QM?... pretty sure my biceps are as big as his thighs... this kid could snap like a twig under any physical pressure... Ausit Daye II
Not really like Austin Daye, by any stretch of the imagination. I don't doubt that you've worked on your "guns" Merc, but remember Kevin Garnett, Tayshaun Prince, and my all time favorite and one of the greatest shooters I've seen in the pros, George Gervin, when they came into the league? Too long and skinny; too light in the ass to compete was the knock, but look what they accomplished. I'm not saying QM is anywhere near Garnett or Gervin, but he damn sure ain't an Austin Daye.

Did anyone read the regular season grades for our SF's? Wasn't that a crock? How in the hell can you post a record like we just did and have the absolute worst SF's in the league getting maximum PT (thus contributing to that awful record) and be graded that high? Talk about spin doctoring.
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:58 am

QM?... pretty sure my biceps are as big as his thighs... this kid could snap like a twig under any physical pressure... Ausit Daye II
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:15 pm

deusXango wrote:"I don't think any of us knows what we have in QM, that's the reason we want him to get PT, so we can either keep him or broom him quick because we don't have time to waste. Dynamic & multi-dimensional aren't the words I would use to describe him. I'm more of the interesting & great length variety. I feel that he could give us a mismatch at the SF position IF he can defend the position, but there are a lot of questions about him, more questions than answers, and I'm not quite sure why you guys don't have those questions!
Speaking for myself, but Sebastian would probably agree, the question is how much worse or better does SVG expect QM to be compared to Singler, Butler, Prince, and Martin? I can stand on my principles of what a SF should contribute and none of those guys brought it on a consistent basis, but now that Miller is here, the standards of SF play has gone through the roof! I'm not going to nit-pick at his game when his predecessors down right sucked, but they had a cheering section inspite of the non-effective smoke & mirrors game they played.

Having said that, QM has a huge opportunity right now! He would be the obvious player to groom for the starting position, and it would solve a lot of problems for us if he was! But if SVG signs another SF, and drafts one, IMO, SVG will cut QM, no matter how well he plays in summer league, or how much Dre & KCP like him!"-Oracle
Oracle, how huge is this opportunity if what you speculate SVG may do is true? If another SF is signed, it's certain to be for more than what Miller's contract is calling for, and I've already suggested that SVG draft a SF, to play behind the veteran Miller (a page from your book about rookies not being ready to make a sustained contribution coming in), and if you feel SVG will cut QM, no matter how well he plays in summer league, and totally disregard the positive bonding with two of his designated nucleus pieces, then you know why I'm scared sh!tless about what this off season may yield. What's wrong with taking a chance on a player who was drafted before any of this years starters and younger than all of them? i'm not saying he's Kevin Durant, but let's see how he fits and SVG, please, please, cut out the dumb sh!t.

What's really wrong with Mario Hezonja, other than he's a Euro player? This transcontinental prejudice is ridiculous, particularly since it's based on an ill-advised draft pick over 10 years ago. If Darko was coveted by as many teams as some vehemently stand by today, why didn't any of those teams step up and offer decent trades? Joe was a damn fool for passing over Carmelo Anthony and everybody in the basketball world knew it at the time, and todays results bear that out! Drafting Hezonja today ain't that serious. Remember the epic debates Sebastian and I would have over the merits of Stuckey? That NBADraft,net article is just like our debates; one person representing his strengths and another person pointing out his weaknesses, but the real player is somewhere in between. How old is that assessment anyway?      

Relating to Miller, I haven't seen much to get excited about but if he does have the right stuff then for the right price it would be a good thing to groom players like Miller in the D League. Notice several teams are building for the future doing that very same thing. Maybe we have something and maybe not. But if we keep the rights to some young guys who are not strong enough or fully developed with their skill set yet, then stash them away for two years or so and then when they are ready use them.

I like the statement that Van Gundy sent to season ticket holders where he wrote about building around some of the young guys. He included Spencer Dinwiddie in that group. I am so happy that Stan knows that he has a special player in Mr. D.

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Wild game in Bucks land today

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:09 pm

First off hats off to Rose. He seems fully recovered from the ACL injury and subsquent knee issues. Having suffered this same injury I was among the thousands who never could make it back. Incredible stuff to see him with those creative drives.

J. Bayless is proving that he is the best point guard on that Bucks team. Bayless has struggled for a long time but has never given up on himself. He missed a few shots in crunch time but made that great cut to receive the perfect pass with one second left on the clock to win it. This series has been really hard fought and fun to watch.

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Some answers...

Post  Oracle on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:02 pm

deusXango wrote:Speaking for myself, but Sebastian would probably agree, the question is how much worse or better does SVG expect QM to be compared to Singler, Butler, Prince, and Martin? I can stand on my principles of what a SF should contribute and none of those guys brought it on a consistent basis, but now that Miller is here, the standards of SF play has gone through the roof! I'm not going to nit-pick at his game when his predecessors down right sucked, but they had a cheering section inspite of the non-effective smoke & mirrors game they played.
Actually, that's not the question. You mentioned that the others had cheering sections, and that 100% true, but they also had detractors... plenty of them that thought they sucked. Well, since they all sucked, OBVIOUSLY the standard was very high for what we need.

Now that we have a chance to start over fresh, why should we use a suck standard and just want something that doesn't suck? We all know what a good SF should be, and if SVG finds a good one on the market, the one thing we'll know for sure is that he's better than QM on day one of next season beyond any doubt. So all I'm saying is that we should judge QM by the standards we want in a SF, and the talent he actually has, not the standards and talent we HOPE he'll have.

Do we really want to keep crowning players before they've proven anything? Reeks of Stuckey, IMO!


Oracle, how huge is this opportunity if what you speculate SVG may do is true? If another SF is signed, it's certain to be for more than what Miller's contract is calling for, and I've already suggested that SVG draft a SF, to play behind the veteran Miller (a page from your book about rookies not being ready to make a sustained contribution coming in), and if you feel SVG will cut QM, no matter how well he plays in summer league, and totally disregard the positive bonding with two of his designated nucleus pieces, then you know why I'm scared sh!tless about what this off season may yield. What's wrong with taking a chance on a player who was drafted before any of this years starters and younger than all of them? i'm not saying he's Kevin Durant, but let's see how he fits and SVG, please, please, cut out the dumb sh!t.
The opportunity is huge, but the obstacles are just as huge! What I speculate happens every day in the NBA! A no track record, waived, D-League player simply doesn't stand up next to a player with a NBA track record that was starting on a NBA team. QM will have to really blow somebody away to get that job, and that's the ONLY way it should be.

As you know, I really want him to have a good shot, mainly so that we don't give up on a player that could really help us, but there are other realities in life, things like limited roster spots, it's not all related to money, or Josh might still be here. You may think these things are dumb, but if you had to make these decisions, you'd be doing the same thing.

But if SVG drafts Stanley Johnson and doesn't get a SF somewhere else, I will back QM as the starting SF, for all of the reasons you guys state, it would be his job to lose!


What's really wrong with Mario Hezonja, other than he's a Euro player? This transcontinental prejudice is ridiculous, particularly since it's based on an ill-advised draft pick over 10 years ago. If Darko was coveted by as many teams as some vehemently stand by today, why didn't any of those teams step up and offer decent trades? Joe was a damn fool for passing over Carmelo Anthony and everybody in the basketball world knew it at the time, and todays results bear that out! Drafting Hezonja today ain't that serious. Remember the epic debates Sebastian and I would have over the merits of Stuckey? That NBADraft,net article is just like our debates; one person representing his strengths and another person pointing out his weaknesses, but the real player is somewhere in between. How old is that assessment anyway?      
I called this ONE guy a Euro Gump, I didn't indict the entirety of the league as Gumps! There are a sh!t load of very good Euro players, many of them were kicking our asses last season, but that doesn't mean they don't have some signature bad players, just like the NBA does(we call them scrubs over here, lol). When you guys were pushing QM, one of the reasons I did think he could make it was some of the youtube videos you guys showed. Of course these videos don't prove anything, but at least it shows glimpses of potential. I saw some potential in his videos, but quite frankly, the QM videos were more impressive!

DX, you should know that I don't just pop off with wild stuff, I didn't know much about this kid, so I saw that draft report. But beyond that, I put the link out there for you to form your own opinion, it has another weakness report, and more videos. I suggest you take a real look before saying "What's wrong with him". The 3 players I mentioned would be much better prospects, unless you're interested in a limited jump shooter. BTW, here's another weakness report by a DIFFERENT person... see a pattern?

Weaknesses: Hezonja has incredible intensity, but sometimes that manifests itself in him being too hard on himself and especially teammates. He's been seen getting in the face of teammates when they don't play up to his expectations ... He's a poor student and considered to be a bit of a wild child off the floor. Gaining some maturity and becoming more of a team player should be something that he focuses on ... He's very young so his long-limbed body is perfect for his age, however he must put on some muscle to play in NBA ... In one-on-one defense, he doesn't always exhibit enough intensity, but sometimes that is understandable in order for him to be as prolific as he is offensively ...

These Notes and the original weakness report were produced on 4/21/2015, the weakness above is from 2011, but still raises a lot of red flags!
Notes: He grew up with KK Dubrovnik (Croatia) juniors and he made his debut with the senior team during the 2008-09 season ... He played there in the 2009-10 championship, but the following season he moved to KK Zagreb where he played also the 2011-12 championship. He moved to Spain for the 2012-13 season, signed by FC Barcelona, also played with the second team, LEB-Gold till last season. He had 20 pts, 8 rbs and 3 assists with the MVP trophy at 2011 U16 European championships, when Croatia won the gold medal ... That summer he also played for the U19 team at the world cup (three years under age) averaging 8 points and 2 rebounds ... The following summer he won the bronze medal at the 2012 World U-17 Championship, and despite the fact that he was recovering from mononucleosis he closed the competition with 21 points and 8 rebounds on average ... He was part of Croatian senior national team at last world cup ... He’s averaging 5 points 2 rebounds and 2 assists in ACB thus far, with a season high of 24 points and 6 assists against Manresa. He’s averaging 8 points in Euroleague with a season high 22 points against Real Madrid.
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Stuff & more stuff

Post  deusXango on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:45 pm

"I don't think any of us knows what we have in QM, that's the reason we want him to get PT, so we can either keep him or broom him quick because we don't have time to waste. Dynamic & multi-dimensional aren't the words I would use to describe him. I'm more of the interesting & great length variety. I feel that he could give us a mismatch at the SF position IF he can defend the position, but there are a lot of questions about him, more questions than answers, and I'm not quite sure why you guys don't have those questions!
Speaking for myself, but Sebastian would probably agree, the question is how much worse or better does SVG expect QM to be compared to Singler, Butler, Prince, and Martin? I can stand on my principles of what a SF should contribute and none of those guys brought it on a consistent basis, but now that Miller is here, the standards of SF play has gone through the roof! I'm not going to nit-pick at his game when his predecessors down right sucked, but they had a cheering section inspite of the non-effective smoke & mirrors game they played.

Having said that, QM has a huge opportunity right now! He would be the obvious player to groom for the starting position, and it would solve a lot of problems for us if he was! But if SVG signs another SF, and drafts one, IMO, SVG will cut QM, no matter how well he plays in summer league, or how much Dre & KCP like him!"-Oracle
Oracle, how huge is this opportunity if what you speculate SVG may do is true? If another SF is signed, it's certain to be for more than what Miller's contract is calling for, and I've already suggested that SVG draft a SF, to play behind the veteran Miller (a page from your book about rookies not being ready to make a sustained contribution coming in), and if you feel SVG will cut QM, no matter how well he plays in summer league, and totally disregard the positive bonding with two of his designated nucleus pieces, then you know why I'm scared sh!tless about what this off season may yield. What's wrong with taking a chance on a player who was drafted before any of this years starters and younger than all of them? i'm not saying he's Kevin Durant, but let's see how he fits and SVG, please, please, cut out the dumb sh!t.

What's really wrong with Mario Hezonja, other than he's a Euro player? This transcontinental prejudice is ridiculous, particularly since it's based on an ill-advised draft pick over 10 years ago. If Darko was coveted by as many teams as some vehemently stand by today, why didn't any of those teams step up and offer decent trades? Joe was a damn fool for passing over Carmelo Anthony and everybody in the basketball world knew it at the time, and todays results bear that out! Drafting Hezonja today ain't that serious. Remember the epic debates Sebastian and I would have over the merits of Stuckey? That NBADraft,net article is just like our debates; one person representing his strengths and another person pointing out his weaknesses, but the real player is somewhere in between. How old is that assessment anyway?
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Please SVG, don't draft that Euro Gump!!!

Post  Oracle on Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:01 pm

Chad Ford is smoking a chubby these days! He has us passing over Kelly Oubre, Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner to get this guy??? SVG, don't do it, just take your family on a vacation, Europe it's nice in the summer, and bring your fat ass back home and draft like a normal human!!! Hedo Türkoğlu fantasies are NOT a good thing, you need better jerk material! Peruse those weaknesses!!!

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/mario-hezonja wrote:Strenghts: Standing 6-8, he has ideal size for the wing position ... Has a solid structure and high level athleticism even by NBA standards ... He has bulked up some, adding muscle to his frame over the last couple seasons, training with top level athletes in a competitive environment ... He combines good size with amazing body control, athleticism and leaping abilities, showing a quick first step and explosiveness ... Offensively he’s a solid shooter, with an improved shooting form, a quick release and unlimited range, even far away behind the three point line ... His offensive repertoire includes spot up shots from the corners, pull-up jumpers or finishing by attacking the rim, where he's able to fully utilize his athleticism ... He’s an underrated passer whowing the ability to find teamates with solid court vision and basketball IQ ... He has improved his off the ball game, displaying the ability to find the proper spot and timing ... Defensively, he’s able to guard basically two positions (2 and 3) in Europe (and probably in US) combining his speed, size and quick hands ... He shows ttremendous instincts in jumping passing lanes ... Thanks to his size, he’s also an above the average rebounder for the wing... He’s really confident on his talent, he’s really comfortable in clutch situations ... 

Weaknesses: He still could work on his body strength to better withstand contact in the NBA ... He lacks a solid mid-range game, which is the area where he struggles the most ... He’s effective in ISO situations, but he tends to need a screen or generally a situation that creates an advantage for him, since when he’s forced to create a basket from off the dribble, he is less effective than other elite prospects ... Despite his improved shot selection, he still tends to look for his shot instead of finding an open man when the defense is good, even though he has solid passing skills ... His off the ball defense is not effective enough, since he lacks focus and positioning, furthermore he tends to be too aggressive in the closeouts leading to useless fouls ... This could be considered his breakout season concerning his performances, but the consistency is still a sticky point, especially from one game to the next ... He has worked a lot on his temper, but his fiery nature and cocky attitude is still his trademark, and can get him in trouble at times ... 

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Post  Oracle on Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:44 pm

Don wrote:Stan Van Gundy keep saying we are trying to create a new culture within the Piston organization. If Monroe and Drummond stay he must start with them or this team will continue to dwell just above the bottom where the losers live. People say Drummond is so young and he will get better on defense. Drummond has never been interested in playing strong defense.

I'm coming around to what you keep saying about our big men! Drummond needs to start producing on the defensive end! It's not like he's even average, he's piss poor as a defender, easily faked, and guards show no fear! Monroe can't defend on the perimeter because he can't recover, and he can't defend on the block because his lateral speed sucks. One of them has to take the next step defensively, or we're either going nowhere, or we'll have to shoot lights out every night!

Seb wrote:Yo, DX, I hope that QM is given a "real" chance at getting minutes and like, you, I hope that he gets starters' minutes at the SF position.

If Moose is resigned and is plugged in as the starting PF, again, WE will need a dynamic and multi-dimensional SF like QM to see big minutes at the SF.

Seb, both you & DX keep saying these things about QM, and I keep wondering what games I missed where he's showed all of this great talent!

I don't think any of us knows what we have in QM, that's the reason we want him to get PT, so we can either keep him or broom him quick because we don't have time to waste. Dynamic & multi-dimensional aren't the words I would use to describe him. I'm more of the interesting & great length variety. I feel that he could give us a mismatch at the SF position IF he can defend the position, but there are a lot of questions about him, more questions than answers, and I'm not quite sure why you guys don't have those questions!

Having said that, QM has a huge opportunity right now! He would be the obvious player to groom for the starting position, and it would solve a lot of problems for us if he was! But if SVG signs another SF, and drafts one, IMO, SVG will cut QM, no matter how well he plays in summer league, or how much Dre & KCP like him!

And then there's this... SVG's 5 young building blocks!
http://pistonpowered.com/2015/04/25/stan-van-gundy-lists-five-players-in-pistons-nice-young-nucleus/ wrote:an email Pistons president/coach Stan Van Gundy sent to season ticket holders last weekend, in which he listed Monroe among the players he hopes to build around.

We have a nice young nucleus forming with Andre Drummond (22 years old), Reggie Jackson (24 years old), KCP (22 years old), Greg Monroe (24 years old) and Spencer Dinwiddie (21 years old),” Van Gundy wrote. “We will continue to build around this young group with quality veterans cut from the same mold as Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, Joel Anthony and Anthony Tolliver.”

Van Gundy has consistently expressed his affection for Greg Monroe and desire to re-sign the big man. It’s a little funny seeing Monroe on this list considering he likely leaves in free agency, but there’s no need to cast him off before it happens.

For what it’s worth, Jackson is a pending free agent, too. (And poor Brandon Jennings, who’s just seven months older than Jackson and is under contract for next season, but apparently is not part of the team’s “nice young nucleus.”)

I also get a kick out of “quality veterans cut from the same mold as Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, Joel Anthony and Anthony Tolliver.” In other words, veterans like those four – not necessarily those four themselves.

Two things jump out at me.
1. That last comment is the one I hope is most true, we need a better supporting cast!
2. It's amazing how quickly SVG jumped off the Jennings bandwagon, he doesn't even rate a mention!
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QM must play!

Post  Sebastian on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:55 am

Yo, DX, I hope that QM is given a "real" chance at getting minutes and like, you, I hope that he gets starters' minutes at the SF position.

If Moose is resigned and is plugged in as the starting PF, again, WE will need a dynamic and multi-dimensional SF like QM to see big minutes at the SF.

But, it remains to be seen what actually happens with Moose and Jackson. I think that a team like the Lakers, which is without a starting PG will go after Jackson pretty hard in FA, as I think that the Lakers may have soured on Rondo.

No doubt, it will be an interesting summer for OUR Pistons.

deusXango wrote:QM says he's working out here, this off season, in hopes of earning a spot on the Pistons; I'd love for him to earn not only a spot on the Pistons, but in the starting lineup, particularly if the Moose and Jackson re-signs. We're going to need a floor spreader in the starting lineup and it'll make whoever we draft at #8 that much more valuable....Hezonja, Johnson, or Porzingis will be playing behind veterans as they develop.

Oracle has said on many occasions that starting a rookie won't make as great an impact as starting a veteran, and I can finally see the wisdom in that; rookies aren't going to get any questionable calls, until they make their "bones" and they don't understand the rigors of the NBA. Miller is technically a veteran, albeit a young one, with limited playing experience, but has the potential to outperform all the SF starters who stunk to high heaven this year IMHO.

Miller already has an off court bonding with two of our more athletic starters in Drummond and KCP, now all they must do is develop a defensive bond on the court where they trust each other, because they're also in need of developing basic defensive principles, inspite of their athleticism. Starting Miller would also make me feel better about re-signing Monroe, if that comes to pass; the Moose would have two extremely athletic players on the frontline with him, to hide his deficiencies on both ends of the floor, and we'd have a hell of a frontline, size and skill wise.

I gotta make my feelings known about our backcourt; Meeks is a roll of the dice by SVG that we'll have to live with ($6 million a year), but Jennings isn't bench material (not without becoming a team cancer) and should be traded A.S.A.P. From opening day until the trade deadline, A.S.A.P.!!! Dinwiddie is SVG's first draft pick, has the size and skills to become that "combo guard" that many favor, and IMO is the ideal 6th man or first guard off the bench. Play him and Meeks like LB did "the Pitbulls" if you must, but to be Jackson or KCP's backup, he's ideal. We're gonna be alright once we straighten out the guard situation.

My speculation now, before the draft or FA, is seeing a more competitive team than the one we started the season with, taking the floor in 2015-16. Consistency has been our problem and that starts with management; be consistent with the young players you've chosen to be the team and allow them the time together to develop. To that end I see a rotation something like this:
PG-Jackson
SG-KCP
SF-Miller
PF-Monroe
C- Drummond
With a supporting bench of our #8 pick (SF), Meeks, Dinwiddie, Tolliver, Anthony, and our 2nd round pick...that's 11 players in our rotation, leaving room for 4 talented towel wavers. This is the same team that played .500 ball, after some major changes, with all sorts of things going against them, and you've only added Miller and two draft picks to the mix, and Miller is the only new face in the starting lineup. Even if you're an anti-Miller fan, it's hard to deny the consistency of the roster, the potential that youth presents, and SVG the coach working his magic.

Sebastian, we may get our wish and see great changes with a player we both support....say it ain't so. lol
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Spurs are a special organization offering a product that is beautiful to watch

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:07 am

The Spurs coach being interviewed before the start of the 4th quarter responds to a question as to how the Spurs had held the Clippers to only 49 points. "Just effort" was the answer. Hmmm isn't that interesting how simple the game is meant to be played. So how does that fit with Charlie V's comments several seasons ago when asked what is wrong with the Pistons? Why is this team losing so many games or can't even stay close? Charlie V says, "It is not about our talent". The Spurs are humble playing hard nosed smart basketball the way it was supposed to be played> Meanwhile, Charlie V was pulling in 8 mil a year for the Pistons with our GM at the time just hiding in the shadows and allowing players like Charlie V to get away with comments like that. I watched that player jogging down the court on offense and just setting up beyond the free throw line. He is 6 foot 11 inches tall or close to that size but never that it was necessary to develop a post up game. But the worst trait was when he could never be seen in the paint on offense trying to get a offensive rebound yet was still the last Piston player back on defense. How can that be Joe? Where were you? Why did you make all those coaching staffs have to deal with players like Charlie V? You can make a safe bet that the Spurs would of course never offered Charlie a contract in the first place. And if Charlie came into training camp faking injuries and 10 pounds over weight, something would have been done to remove him from the team. We also had Rodney Stuckey making the same amount of money as Charlie at the time and he was content to come off the bench instead of leading by example. THAT MEANS SHOWING THE YOUNG PLAYERS THAT THE KEY TO SUCCESS IS GIVING MAXIMUM EFFORT ON THE PRACTICE COURT IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND THE OFF SEASON. I am still amazed that some Piston fans admire Stuckey or say wow isn't it cool that Charlie V actually made a playoff team. While those two players betrayed Joe Dumars and faked it as Piston players you still admire them. And I am amazed at the lack of response by Joe Dumars when those two players suckered him. Joe was a player. He knew what it took to play at a high level. How could Joe Dumars allow slackers to wear the Piston uniform and make a complete fool of him as a GM? Joe never said anything negative about those players to possibly light a fire under their lazy asses. He did nothing so a culture was created within the organization from the front office on down. Lack of work ethic relating to evaluating free agents and draftees hurt the organization. Lack of standing up for what is right by the front office relating to creating a positive team chemistry was alive and well within the organization. the simple response to all problems to sweep management's ineptness was to fire coaching staffs. And the fans bought it. The said thing is that Tom Gores bought it for too long as well. No team wanted Stuckey or Charlie V because of their lack of effort, playing record and stupid contracts so instead of working hard to remove them like Van Gundy did with Smith or working out something with another team where the Pistons would pay part of their salary, Dumars did nothing and just watched from his corner at the Palace and blamed it all on coaches.

The Pistons are pulling themselves out of a big hole because of two huge blunders from management under Tom Gores rule. The Ben Gordon trade and the trade involving Knight and Middleton should not be forgotten by any Piston fan. That was a betrayal by management to the fans. The punishment for the owners has been the empty seats at the Palace. That is justice Mr. Gores. The owner has a long way to go to show fans he really cares about creating a winning team. How can we trust him to do the right thing? He made the financial thing with the Gordon trade over what was best for the future of the team. If we hadn't lost the first round pick last season it would have happened this season. Thanks for that. We fans should demand more from this owner.

Now the discussion centers around should the Pistons offer Monroe a new contract and for how much? Remember what the Spurs coach said last night as to why his team had so much success? EFFORT is the simple answer. Greg Monroe has not provided enough EFFORT and that is why he sucks at the defensive end of the floor. This season with his future on the line, he has listened more to his coaches and has played better defense. But his overall effort is still not good enough compared to the big men who are getting playing time in the playoffs. You can't take possessions off on defense. You can't jog between the free throw lines. It is easy to see why Greg Monroe is such a horrible defender. He wanders out too far beyond the free throw line for a guy with slow feet and then he fails to give EFFORT once he gets out too far and has been seen standing without making any EFFORT to recover and help his teammates in the paint. That is why the Pistons have given up so many 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities to opponents for Greg's entire history as a Piston player. Remember the days when Ben Wallace flew back if he got out too far and then managed to block a shot. Ben knew that the key to success was simply to get his ass in incredible physical condition and practice hard so his body would respond automatically the way a real basketball player should respond. If you are a player you should never be caught watching like a spectator and that is what I have seen both Monroe and Drummond do a lot of so far in their careers as Pistons. That crap would not be allowed in the Spurs organization.

Stan Van Gundy keep saying we are trying to create a new culture within the Piston organization. If Monroe and Drummond stay he must start with them or this team will continue to dwell just above the bottom where the losers live. People say Drummond is so young and he will get better on defense. Drummond has never been interested in playing strong defense. And a young player named Leonard on the Spurs is about the same age. Look what he has created from within! That took hard work and great effort to get to the level he is at right now. I admire that and pull for those players who walk the walk. I have my doubts that Monroe will ever walk the walk. Drummond has a chance though and we will see if he really cares about playing on a winning team or goes to the basement where Charlie V has lived. Charlie did do a great job of tweeting from the bench though and fans did say that Charlie was not getting a fair chance to show his talent after so many Piston coaching staffs gave up on him. Those fans swallowed everything that Joe Dumars dished out. The Spurs have a no nonsense organization and never broke up their team after some tough moments. Joe pulled the trigger quickly.

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Quincy Miller

Post  deusXango on Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:33 pm

QM says he's working out here, this off season, in hopes of earning a spot on the Pistons; I'd love for him to earn not only a spot on the Pistons, but in the starting lineup, particularly if the Moose and Jackson re-signs. We're going to need a floor spreader in the starting lineup and it'll make whoever we draft at #8 that much more valuable....Hezonja, Johnson, or Porzingis will be playing behind veterans as they develop.

Oracle has said on many occasions that starting a rookie won't make as great an impact as starting a veteran, and I can finally see the wisdom in that; rookies aren't going to get any questionable calls, until they make their "bones" and they don't understand the rigors of the NBA. Miller is technically a veteran, albeit a young one, with limited playing experience, but has the potential to outperform all the SF starters who stunk to high heaven this year IMHO.

Miller already has an off court bonding with two of our more athletic starters in Drummond and KCP, now all they must do is develop a defensive bond on the court where they trust each other, because they're also in need of developing basic defensive principles, inspite of their athleticism. Starting Miller would also make me feel better about re-signing Monroe, if that comes to pass; the Moose would have two extremely athletic players on the frontline with him, to hide his deficiencies on both ends of the floor, and we'd have a hell of a frontline, size and skill wise.

I gotta make my feelings known about our backcourt; Meeks is a roll of the dice by SVG that we'll have to live with ($6 million a year), but Jennings isn't bench material (not without becoming a team cancer) and should be traded A.S.A.P. From opening day until the trade deadline, A.S.A.P.!!! Dinwiddie is SVG's first draft pick, has the size and skills to become that "combo guard" that many favor, and IMO is the ideal 6th man or first guard off the bench. Play him and Meeks like LB did "the Pitbulls" if you must, but to be Jackson or KCP's backup, he's ideal. We're gonna be alright once we straighten out the guard situation.

My speculation now, before the draft or FA, is seeing a more competitive team than the one we started the season with, taking the floor in 2015-16. Consistency has been our problem and that starts with management; be consistent with the young players you've chosen to be the team and allow them the time together to develop. To that end I see a rotation something like this:
PG-Jackson
SG-KCP
SF-Miller
PF-Monroe
C- Drummond
With a supporting bench of our #8 pick (SF), Meeks, Dinwiddie, Tolliver, Anthony, and our 2nd round pick...that's 11 players in our rotation, leaving room for 4 talented towel wavers. This is the same team that played .500 ball, after some major changes, with all sorts of things going against them, and you've only added Miller and two draft picks to the mix, and Miller is the only new face in the starting lineup. Even if you're an anti-Miller fan, it's hard to deny the consistency of the roster, the potential that youth presents, and SVG the coach working his magic.

Sebastian, we may get our wish and see great changes with a player we both support....say it ain't so. lol
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DX, good response...

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:57 pm

deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:DX, this isn't about love for Monroe, it's business logic, and with that said, it will always come down to a tradeoff.

Keeping Monroe is the obvious smart move business and actually organization wise, if you have an argument to counter that, I'm open to changing my mind.
If there is such a thing as done deal, it should be with the Pistons, who he may or may not decide to play for...there's no done deal because he wants to listen to what other teams have to offer, but in the meantime SVG and crew is hamstrung going into draft night....PF or SF? He held up the franchise last year, before signing the Q.O., giving him power over Van Gundy's ability make the best decisions for the team because the draft takes place before FA. As far as business goes, IMO, it's a bad practice to have our feet held to the fire by a player the caliber of Monroe, year after year.
I totally agree that a deal can't be done before the draft, but you've made 2 assumption with that statement and response. That we can't know prior to the draft what Monroe will do, and even if we don't know, that we would operate with a hope and prayer that he will sign, and that ship has sailed! IMO, unless we have a firm commitment from Monroe & his agent that he will sign, we should be drafting as if he won't be here. However, if SVG is to be believed, it doesn't matter what Monroe does, it has little effect as he's said he will draft the best player available, which is totally a smart move, and the only way to draft, IMO, unless it's awfully close! As always, a tie or close, goes to need, otherwise best player!


But the tradeoff is this: Does Monroe's flaws override the business benefits?
I think so, I really do. Jackson should be re-signed and I believe he will be; imagine if we draft Stanley Johnson, re-sign Monroe and Jackson, presenting us with a starting lineup of Drummond, Monroe, Johnson, KCP, and Jackson...all these players are at their best playing inside, but they're being coached by a coach who preaches the 3 ball. Business wise, if we wrote Monroe off as a loss, and proceeded from there going into the draft and FA, we'd have a team more to Van Gundy's liking; the difference between Johnson and Hezonja or throwing a max contract offer at Draymond Green (who I'd rather have playing next to Drummond than Monroe) or Aldridge/Love...in this business, there's no telling what'll happen and that "nobody wants to play in Detroit" is poppycock!! This is a new Detroit that we're selling today; remember SVG wasn't sold on the "D," but look at what happened.
You've got a lot here, but frankly, that's not the point in the business end of this. The other tradeoff is can we replace Monroe with anywhere near the production. We already know that we can win at a high level with Monroe, Jennings proved that beyond a reasonable doubt! If Jackson can't do that then the problem is not with Monroe! One thing that dominates your discussion of drafting is the underlying assumption that rookies can play NBA ball on day one and they don't need time to learn. Very few players are ready in year one, a few more in year 2, so what are we to do in the meantime... lose games??? BTW, I don't want Draymond Green as a PF, he's WAY too small! He's really a SF, but struggles a bit defending that position, even though he would instantly become our best defender!


This is where opinion can differ, which is why I believe you ignore the business side and respond the way you do, but it was hard for me to understand you since you don't separate the two issues.
I've not separated Monroe's flaws from business because SVG hasn't shown he's able to do that; his unshakable determination to sign Monroe, no matter what, is what's disturbed me most about him wielding the power he does, not to mention the majority of his administrative decisions about the teams roster this past year. I'm really scared sh!tless about what he'll do this off season.
True! As I've said, I hope that SVG/Gores are just doing the right thing, because all of that man love being tosses at Monroe is a bit embarrassing! He's good, but he's not even a star player yet, so PLEASE, get the love thing cooled down!


BTW, the way you describe SVG's organization, it looks like they make decisions athletically, as shown below.
Oracle, I don't know where you come up with these cute little expressive shots, but this one is great! - Keeping my eyes open Very Happy

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My ideas were a joke and I know it. LOL

Post  deusXango on Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:04 pm

Oracle wrote:DX, this isn't about love for Monroe, it's business logic, and with that said, it will always come down to a tradeoff.

Keeping Monroe is the obvious smart move business and actually organization wise, if you have an argument to counter that, I'm open to changing my mind.
If there is such a thing as done deal, it should be with the Pistons, who he may or may not decide to play for...there's no done deal because he wants to listen to what other teams have to offer, but in the meantime SVG and crew is hamstrung going into draft night....PF or SF? He held up the franchise last year, before signing the Q.O., giving him power over Van Gundy's ability make the best decisions for the team because the draft takes place before FA. As far as business goes, IMO, it's a bad practice to have our feet held to the fire by a player the caliber of Monroe, year after year.

But the tradeoff is this: Does Monroe's flaws override the business benefits?
I think so, I really do. Jackson should be re-signed and I believe he will be; imagine if we draft Stanley Johnson, re-sign Monroe and Jackson, presenting us with a starting lineup of Drummond, Monroe, Johnson, KCP, and Jackson...all these players are at their best playing inside, but they're being coached by a coach who preaches the 3 ball. Business wise, if we wrote Monroe off as a loss, and proceeded from there going into the draft and FA, we'd have a team more to Van Gundy's liking; the difference between Johnson and Hezonja or throwing a max contract offer at Draymond Green (who I'd rather have playing next to Drummond than Monroe) or Aldridge/Love...in this business, there's no telling what'll happen and that "nobody wants to play in Detroit" is poppycock!! This is a new Detroit that we're selling today; remember SVG wasn't sold on the "D," but look at what happened.

This is where opinion can differ, which is why I believe you ignore the business side and respond the way you do, but it was hard for me to understand you since you don't separate the two issues.
I've not separated Monroe's flaws from business because SVG hasn't shown he's able to do that; his unshakable determination to sign Monroe, no matter what, is what's disturbed me most about him wielding the power he does, not to mention the majority of his administrative decisions about the teams roster this past year. I'm really scared sh!tless about what he'll do this off season.

BTW, the way you describe SVG's organization, it looks like they make decisions athletically, as shown below.
Oracle, I don't know where you come up with these cute little expressive shots, but this one is great!

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:29 pm

Oracle wrote:If you saw the Boston/Cavs game, it would be hard to miss how well JJ & Datome are playing!

After seeing how Datome is such a freaking pest on defense, and now takes shots the defense gives him, not just jacking up a 3, you have to question why he couldn't get decent minutes here, but can get into a hotly contested playoff game in Boston!

And JJ... what can I say, he makes all of the hustle plays that keep teams in games, can be clutch, and is just a great big off the bench! He too couldn't seem to get the PT here that he's getting in Boston on a playoff team.

Oracle it would be very difficult to get any other GM currently holding a job to say that they would not prefer Jonas Jerebco to Tolliver. I just don't get it. Please stan tell me why this happened? Stan said he was disappointed with the Pistons defense. Who was the Pistons best big man defender and defensive rebounder? There was no question that Jerebco was more athletic and had more determination on the defensive end than any of our big men including our alleged franchise player, Andre Drummond.

We currently have zero capability to defend the paint with any of our big men. They are awful and obviously very difficult to coach. I want the Pistons to go in a different direction away from Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe. I want to see big men who have a different style who are more athletic and quicker than the plodders. Remember how our Pistons kicked Orlando's ass when Dwight Howard was their franchise player? Good old Ben Wallace was a killer defender, quick to the ball and a cat in the paint. He loved it. Our two plodders don't like playing defense. That much is clear. I want to see bigs who can come out and trap the corners and then recover quickly. I guess I want a lot to wish for real basketball players and not specialists. Drummond is a specialist in dunking the basketball and that is it. He plays hard at times but not all the time.

Any idiot can predict that Boston,Bucks, Pelicans and other teams will have more success over the next 5 seasons than our Pistons. I won't be surprised if our team will still be struggling to make the playoffs. Losing Knight, Middleton and our number one pick has killed Detroit's real chances of big time success. plus previous management had such horrible talent that they couldn't make trades for draft picks. There is no stockpile of future draft picks like Boston has in their back pocket. The team will look better under this new management than they have over the past 7 seasons but not good enough to make any team fear them.

The day that Joe Dumars draftee Austin Daye I knew we fans would be in for a long wait to see our team ever rise again. I knew a lot of players that year who played in the West coast. Daye by far had the least potential to have any impact in the NBA for at least 5 years. There were worse picks made by Joe. And some fans seem pleased that some of Dumars picks are making other NBA teams today. The truth is that Joe Dumars never knew what the Pistons needed to make them better. When the team had 4 starting players who were among the worst defenders in the league, Joe decides to draft Daye who couldn't stay out of foul trouble on his college team that had to play a zone defense because of him. That draft pick told me Joe Dumars was the worst GM in the business and his staff put in the least amount of work in preparation of the draft. Joe then drafts Knight and Middleton who both were talented defenders then gives them away for Jennings who was a free agent and made the deal when no other team wanted him. The Bucks struck Gold and we Piston fans got screwed. By that time I wouldn't trust Joe Dumars to pick out a good donut for me. Why did other GMs not want Jennings? He couldn't play a lick of defense and his teammates didn't like playing with him. I should add was Dumars and this current ownership group interested in Piston team chemistry and did they identify that our team couldn't play defense to the level of a good college basketball team? They all had their heads in the toilet so today we have to watch a group of misfits try to figure it out with a new management team. How exciting it would be to be a Celtics, Pelican or Bucks fan instead of a Piston fan. People feel sorry for us if you didn't know. You have to live outside the State of Michigan to know that.

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This Draft is DEEP!!!

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:32 pm

Tough, tough decisions await SVG at #8!

"Pretty much everybody considered a lottery prospect has now declared. Both Hezonja and Porzingis are now in. And late this week, the last two college prospects considered top-10 talents, D'Angelo Russell of Ohio State and Stanley Johnson of Arizona, announced they were leaving after closely scrutinized freshman seasons." - Good news for Pistons as draft class fills up on news of latest entries
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Datome & JJ

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:03 pm

If you saw the Boston/Cavs game, it would be hard to miss how well JJ & Datome are playing!

After seeing how Datome is such a freaking pest on defense, and now takes shots the defense gives him, not just jacking up a 3, you have to question why he couldn't get decent minutes here, but can get into a hotly contested playoff game in Boston!

And JJ... what can I say, he makes all of the hustle plays that keep teams in games, can be clutch, and is just a great big off the bench! He too couldn't seem to get the PT here that he's getting in Boston on a playoff team.
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Re: FORUM

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