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Slow, but news keeps coming...

Post  Oracle on Sun May 03, 2015 6:13 am

Why was Knight traded? It turns out that it was 100% about the money, and the Bucks only wanted to cough up 9M/yr to their best player, but he wanted closer to 12M(he'll likely get even more from the Suns). Dumb move by the Bucks because with the CAP rising, locking up Knight would have been a smart move. They're likely to suffer as Parker's recovery from a torn ACL is something you really have to watch, and with MCW, you need more firepower around him to get the benefit of his superior floor vision. - Report: Brandon Knight Wanted $48 Million From Milwaukee

Leave it to Zeke to do some interesting analysis! He called the Warrior's backcourt the best shooting duo he's ever seen, and I agree! IMO, not the best overall, but in shooting, that's an easy call! But it's what he says after that, that's interesting, and also about another rule change!

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2015/05/02/detroit-pistons-isiah-thomas-golden-state-warriors/26790893/ wrote:Thomas, an analyst for the NBA Network, did bring up a great point: with hand checking eliminated from the game (which was allowed when Thomas was leading the Pistons to two NBA titles) it's tough to stop Golden State's dynamic duo.

"The rules don't allow you to do that," he said. "Now would they be the same if hand-checking and all that were back in the game? The way they shoot the basketball and their mechanics would have to change.

"We can say they are the best shooting backcourt that we've seen, but we don't know how great others would have shot the basketball under these rules with no contact. When you look at a Reggie Miller or a Ray Allen, who had to shoot with hand checking and people bumping them ... it's just different without the physicality."

Thomas asked how great a shooter would Larry Bird have been under the current rules?

"Everything would be different," Thomas said, "because people couldn't put their hands on you and they can't touch you. Consequently, your balance is different. When you're in the gym shooting by yourself and nobody's touching or pushing you ... that's kind of what's happening today.

"Everyone has a chance to be as pure as shooter as they can be. That's not taking anything away from Thompson or Curry."

Finally, more Mock Draft Guesses. While this one has us taking Johnson, it's interesting who goes before and after. This draft is really going to be interesting because the order, IMO, is in total flux! Who knows how this thing will shakeout! BTW, the two Euro's that I panned, seem to have more star power in some minds than I've given them credit for... interesting! - 2015 NBA Common Sense Mock Draft: Projecting first round on need and fit
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Hacking Does Sucks Big Time!!!!!

Post  WTF on Sat May 02, 2015 10:14 am

Oh I agree that the hacking away from the ball crap is a non-basketball play and I don't like it one bit. But as myself and Don has also pointed out this would be a non-issue if every player simply improved their FT shooting. Honestly this is the only real and true solution too solving this issue, but as long as we have players like Jordan, Drummond, Josh and so on in clutch moments, closing moments of a close game this is going to continue.

I'm not so much mad at the tactic though I wish it wasn't a part of the game I'm more bothered by the players stepping up to the line unable to shoot better than 40% on an uncontested shot.
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Let me clear up what I mean, I screwed up!

Post  Oracle on Fri May 01, 2015 6:26 pm

For a person that believes that words matter, and imprecise words lead to faulty conclusions, I blew it when talking about this subject.

Intentional fouling as Lemonpen & Wise said, is strategic and should be a part of the game, removing it would dramatically change the game as we know it.

It's not intentional fouling that I'm against, and the penalty, as Lemonpen said, is not appropriate(IMO) for the type of fouling I'm against, and let me explain, by stating how you distinguish the two types.

The Hack a player is distinguished from intentional fouling by how it happens: Hack a player is a foul that occurs away from the ball, and NOT a part of the flow of the game. Where as intentionally fouling occurs on the ball, not away from it!

As I stated before, there is nothing else that they stop from happening in the last two minutes except this... WHY? Because they know there's a problem with it, but they can't think of how to handle it without creating a problem. In fact, I can't think of any analogy in any other major sport where this sort of thing happens, and IMO, it's a flaw in the sport when this sort of behavior is encouraged.

However, my solution is that if you do that, the team should get whatever penalty is available, i.e. the ball out of bounds, or if in the penalty, 2 shots, but in addition, the ball out of bounds.

Just one man's opinion!
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What?????

Post  lemonpen on Fri May 01, 2015 12:12 pm

Oracle wrote:
deusXango wrote:Wise, I'm grateful for the support, but I'm okay, really. You don't survive as long as I have and come from where I have, and have thin skin. It's where I am in my life, at this time, that negative, combative, nonsense, has no place in my heart. Before I go any further, this wasn't about Quincy Miller, it's all about dignity and respect. If you read back over my posts regarding QM and find anything that was offensive to anyone, I trust you to point them out, because it was never my intentions to offend anyone; I don't find it necessary to make my point.

Where's Sparma, and why did he drop off the landscape? I really enjoyed his thought provoking posts, and always a gentleman. I wandered. - Amazing you wonder, when Sparma got BUSTED for lying, he didn't want to take the heat. I like Sparma, but if you wonder about anything, it should be why he did that!

Where am I today? With the sh!t going on in the neighborhoods of America and the chaos that's been ignited by self-righteous, malice driven, thoughtless mutha f#ckas, when I retreat to this medium of temporary escape from the ills of the real world, I personally don't want to see dumb sh!t reflected here, and damn sure don't want to be a part of it. When Flip put this site together, I don't remember him appointing (or a subsequent vote being taken) a forum police, whose skill and duty it was to read minds, read between lines, discern true intentions of a poster, and once it was determined it didn't meet up to the "laws" standards of acceptance, twist words, settle on the most inane point and make a mountain out of it, in short, do all the sh!t they'd have a problem with if they thought was being done to them. No, it's not about Quincy Miller, it's about a reflection of what's going on in the world today, OVERKILL!!!

Wise, there's a difference between taking a stand for player(s) you like and making direct, relentless attacks, on someone you disagree with. I never like Singler as a player, but Don supported him right down the line; Don is one of my favorite posters, because I respect his knowledge, passion, and he shows respect to all. Another one of my true brothers is Sebastian, who I have great respect for also, and we've had some epic debates over Rodney Norvell Stuckey, but none were ever taken personally or we found it necessary to be offensive to each other, in order to make a point. And you Wise; how many times have you "gone up side my head" about a particular point? Never was there any malice, never did you "beat on a dead horse" over it, and never have we lost mutual respect for one another, and it goes far beyond the many things about basketball we see eye-to-eye on...genuine respect. Hurt people, hurt people, and I don't think (would hate to think) any of us are hurting, suffering, and alone with pain, so I'm not finding any excuses for......where the hell is Sparma?!

I find that when the heat is on and people have their backs up, it's best to back off until things cool off, then revisit whatever it is when cooler heads can prevail. Of course there's instances when that doesn't happen, but then physco-sessions are needed, whether they get them or not. - DX, where was the heat? You're just like Sparma, you're making up excuses for getting busted using your own words and actions. Nobody made up what you did, it's all you, you just need a scape goat for your actions.

There's no shame in liking QM so much that you can't accept just giving him a shot, but for you, admitting that you want everyone to be as gung ho on him as you are is something you don't want to do, because you know how strange it would sound.

But if that's how you feel, you should just embrace it! It's time to come out of the closet, so to speak, and admit that you see greatness in QM that we don't!

Don't let fear of being wrong stop you, it didn't stop Wise! It didn't stop Don on Singler, Middleton, Afflalo and Knight!

So when I called you on it, that wasn't an attack, how could it be when describing your actions, it was an opportunity for you to tell the truth....

How the heck does one miscalculate so badly that the train strikes the front of the vehicle. Any worse and the car would have T-Boned the train. How dumb is that.
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Intentional Fouls Are Strategic Advantages Not Cheating

Post  WTF on Fri May 01, 2015 11:31 am

lemonpen wrote:Oracle I could not disagree more.  Intentional fouls are not cheating.  They are an infraction of the rules, but within the general construct of the game, and IMO carry an appropriate penalty.  

Many times the effect of an I.F. appears to penalize only the offensive team but last nights Spurs-Clippers game proves otherwise.  Both Parker and Duncan were benched with 3 fouls B4 the 2nd qtr ended, and it happens that earlier in the half each took an I.F. on Jordan.  In retrospect, I wonder how Popovich would weigh the benefits of that decision.

Do IF’s seem less like cheating when used to extract an injured player from the game when no time outs are available?

Is the age old “NO LAYUP RULE” maintained in playoff basketball, cheating?  Even when committed without consideration for free throw shooting skills of the fouled party.

Is surrendering a pair of free throws cheating when an I.F. is committed to substitute players at the clock stoppage?

Is it cheating to take a semi-  I.F. in going for a late game steal because there is a foul to give prior to awarding of mandatory free throws?

In my view Intentional Fouling is nothing more than a strategic tool implemented by coaches to achieve a goal.  It is no different than employing a zone D,  pushing the ball against slow teams, or faking a jumpy defender off his feet then jumping into him.

Lemon, you're so right none of this is cheating and it piss me to no end that the media, team owners and the league are missing the point on this subject.

Don, sadly sports has become more and more entertainment than a competitive competition of reliable skills and talent. How screwed up things must be if the ability of making a uncontested 10 foot shoot at the FT line brings up this much debate on whether rules need to be implemented.

Oracle, I'm surprise you would call this cheating being a Pistons fan especially of the 80's when we used every advantage conceivable and imaginable in an era of dag eat dog style basketball. We use to employ players just for the purpose of committing intentional fouls, and provoke altercations if need be. I don't maybe it's just me but I rather enjoyed the 80's style of play but it's been soften up to this non-competitive bullshit we have now grown accustom to. I can't remember any other time that the skill level of players sucked so badly.

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Intentional Fouls

Post  lemonpen on Fri May 01, 2015 9:58 am

Oracle I could not disagree more. Intentional fouls are not cheating. They are an infraction of the rules, but within the general construct of the game, and IMO carry an appropriate penalty.

Many times the effect of an I.F. appears to penalize only the offensive team but last nights Spurs-Clippers game proves otherwise. Both Parker and Duncan were benched with 3 fouls B4 the 2nd qtr ended, and it happens that earlier in the half each took an I.F. on Jordan. In retrospect, I wonder how Popovich would weigh the benefits of that decision.

Do IF’s seem less like cheating when used to extract an injured player from the game when no time outs are available?

Is the age old “NO LAYUP RULE” maintained in playoff basketball, cheating? Even when committed without consideration for free throw shooting skills of the fouled party.

Is surrendering a pair of free throws cheating when an I.F. is committed to substitute players at the clock stoppage?

Is it cheating to take a semi- I.F. in going for a late game steal because there is a foul to give prior to awarding of mandatory free throws?

In my view Intentional Fouling is nothing more than a strategic tool implemented by coaches to achieve a goal. It is no different than employing a zone D, pushing the ball against slow teams, or faking a jumpy defender off his feet then jumping into him.
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Clippers play a great game to force game 7

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 01, 2015 9:54 am

This next game should be fun to watch. Spurs players looked tired with legs not cooperating in the 4th quarter. One player on the Clippers that never seems to get any recognition is Matt Barnes. How many times have we watched this guy playing his butt off in the playoffs. He never seems to age. His defense was outstanding last night and I doubt many fans noticed his effort with the exception of the players on both teams. Some great defense and shot making on the part of the Clipper players kept them alive. Yet the Spurs never gave up. The refs missed a travel on the Clippers inbound pass to Crawford. It looked like he lifted his pivot foot not once but 4 times. Jordan made enough free throws to make a difference in this game. Will the Spurs continue with this strategy? With the Big Baby out, Jordan will have to play more minutes. This has been by far the best series so far. Too bad one team has to make an exit.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 01, 2015 9:43 am

[quote="WISEFAN"]None of these things should be acceptable in any shape of form and I don't necessarily subscribe to the concept that these thing are okay because it has become a common place or practice be it in sports, business or everyday life. I think lying, cheating and stealing are only okay because we lowered the standards of what's acceptable behavior.  

In sports you were either bigger, stronger, faster or more skilled and talented than your opponent and advantages taken were far less obvious than in how the games is played today.  Lying, cheating and stealing is wrong period no matter where it happening but it been going on since the beginning of time.  

On the subject of basketball and intentional fouling I don't think no one should be moaning about it and that the league should make big fuss over it.  If  teams or players have an issue with it then improve your team or players free throw shooting period.  I  don't blame a coach for using that tactic of fouling dummies that can't or won't take the time to improve on their game at the FT line.  I don't see it as cheating it's an obvious advantage that a coach seizes on when presented.

If I was an owner of a team paying some ass hole millions to perform then said ass hole would be practicing FT's right now, or any other skills that I see fit.  Personally I think fans need to stop whining because they have accepted the decline in talent and lack of skills of these players instead of demanding that the best product be put on the floor.  

Sure the league can put in some rule to stop it from happening but it doesn't correct the fact that these dumb ass still can't shoot a **** FT. If I was the commissioner I would do the exact opposite and let teams foul all the hell they wanted to and just maybe these asses will take more pride in the game and learn to shoot FT's

Thanks for your comments Wisefan! We are not alone with our view on this issue. Most former or current basketball players don't want this potential rule change either. But as Reggie Miller pointed out, most likely the brain trust running the NBA will change the rule. The lawyers will decide what is best for the game. We must submit to the higher power and their great wisdom. I agree that if anything, there should be a change to allow intentional fouling at any point in the game. To my knowledge, High School and college has no rule like the NBA. But the NBA is an entertainment business and by removing the ability to foul a player intentionally will speed up the game and of course dummy down the NBA game even more.


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Cheaters, Liars & Thieves

Post  WTF on Fri May 01, 2015 5:10 am

None of these things should be acceptable in any shape of form and I don't necessarily subscribe to the concept that these thing are okay because it has become a common place or practice be it in sports, business or everyday life. I think lying, cheating and stealing are only okay because we lowered the standards of what's acceptable behavior.

In sports you were either bigger, stronger, faster or more skilled and talented than your opponent and advantages taken were far less obvious than in how the games is played today. Lying, cheating and stealing is wrong period no matter where it happening but it been going on since the beginning of time.

On the subject of basketball and intentional fouling I don't think no one should be moaning about it and that the league should make big fuss over it. If teams or players have an issue with it then improve your team or players free throw shooting period. I don't blame a coach for using that tactic of fouling dummies that can't or won't take the time to improve on their game at the FT line. I don't see it as cheating it's an obvious advantage that a coach seizes on when presented.

If I was an owner of a team paying some ass hole millions to perform then said ass hole would be practicing FT's right now, or any other skills that I see fit. Personally I think fans need to stop whining because they have accepted the decline in talent and lack of skills of these players instead of demanding that the best product be put on the floor.

Sure the league can put in some rule to stop it from happening but it doesn't correct the fact that these dumb ass still can't shoot a **** FT. If I was the commissioner I would do the exact opposite and let teams foul all the hell they wanted to and just maybe these asses will take more pride in the game and learn to shoot FT's



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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:17 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:"Cheating is embedded in the American Culture"- quote from the great Oracle.

Thanks for that! Oracle have you been watching the series "The Americans"? Are you a former KGB agent? What you are saying is pure propaganda that might have been used by the Soviet Union with their infiltration efforts at another time in history. I haven't heard that crap for years.  So Oracle is American an evil place or is our country really "The Great Satan" as our current enemies give as the reason why they must kill all of us.  Cheating would be alive and well if the NBA creates a special rule to prevent teams from intentionally fouling in my mind. Should the NBA create special "FAIR" rules for people who want to play in the NBA but are only 4 foot tall? Maybe the front office could lower the height of the rim just to be fair. How should the no foul rule apply to situations where you are ahead by 3 points and there is only seconds left on the clock? Do you want to prevent a team from committing an intentional foul to prevent a 3 point play? Will the officials have to now guess if the foul is intentional or not based on a player's free throw percentage(obviously you don't know basketball, or you'd know they don't have to guess, there's a rock solid definition)? Most likely you do Oracle. Then we can wait for more huddles at the scorers table as the officials sort it all out. - Where did that crazy stuff come from? I've never heard of a series called the Americans, you're sounding like a 50's communist scare dude! Of course cheating is built in to American culture! What's one of the first things we learn in sports? If you are WRONG, lie about it if you didn't get caught. If the ball went out on you and the officials make a mistake, don't tell the truth because winning is more important than CHARACTER, even when the games don't count for anything!

Shocking that a guy that keeps saying that players should play the right way and have good values doesn't recognize real values!

On to the subject, if intentional fouling was just fine, then why in the world do they stop at the 2 minute mark? They don't stop anything else, why that? Because it has NOTHING to do with basketball, and interferes with the game, that's why!

You don't need to ask the questions you ask if you base things on values rather than what you want to happen! Intentional fouling is wrong for ANY purpose, and should be a foul in and of itself... base your decision on fundamentals, at least that's the line you keep feeding our bigs, or is that situational for you?

We watched drama develop in this last game between the Clippers and Spurs relating to hacking Jordan. As Reggie Miller said last night, most likely the NBA will screw with the rules again to dummy things down even more for the dummies. Miller and many others are against a rule change for obvious reasons. Intentionally fouling players has gone on for many years. The team that I coached lost a conference championship because our power forward had no confidence in himself at the line in pressure situations. He could make 8 out of 10 in practice most of the time. We lost the game by one point and he was sent to the line 4 times in the last minute and 30 seconds. This power forward didn't sulk or cry like a baby.  Next season the same player made two game winning free throws along with 8 others to sent our team to the semi finals in the State tournament. I will never forget how he felt after that game. He was a man! Our team also defeated a really good team in the State championship when I called for our players to foul the opposing team's center. We won the game after his misses. This guy went on to play in the Big Ten as an All Conference player. His free throw shooting became a non issue when he played in college. For sure having that weight on his shoulders of his team losing because of his lack of practice or ability to hit a pressure free throws made him stronger mentally because of what had happened in that game in high school. Something good came out of the hacking intentional foul situation Oracle. But some do believe there is evil lurking in the shadows everywhere so we need a power elite force of gifted special people to determine what is best for everyone. I get it Oracle you are looking out for the greater good. - Can some good come out of something bad? Yeah, but again, that's not the question, except for the cheaters! Note that nobody is calling anything EVIL except you, and nobody sees conspiracy theories except you... Don take your meds!

Andre Drummond will welcome the rule change next season. He is in the record books as the worst free throw shooter in the entire NBA for this season. Imagine if Andre could only work hard enough to get his percentage up to 70% next year and there is no rule change. We would all be so proud of Andre. He would be proud of himself too. You say the lack of a rule to prevent hacking inept free throw shooters is cheating while I believe not adding any new stupid rule will encourage players like Drummond to practice his ass off to avoid certain humiliation next year and in the end feel really good about himself. There is no doubt that Drummond can become a really good free throw shooter. But with the new "special rule change" we fans will see more and more players who could care less about improving themselves. The poor free throw shooters will continue to listen to their agents who will insist that they spend their energy on building good stats with dunks and meaningless rebounds when the game is not on the line.

You whining about what's right, I notice you didn't make an argument about it being a part of the game in any way, this is fuzzy thinking, full of conspiracy theories, communist, and evil demons lurking in the rule books.

Also as I told you before your rant, none of this has anything to do with players learning the fundamentals, they should for real basketball reasons.

I don't hear you complaining about the "Special Rules" to allow more scoring, or the "Special Rules" for big men as opposed to guards, but cleaning up the game is something cheaters just can't stand for... sheesh!!!

Oh Oracle you should watch "The Americans". I think this is their 3rd season and it is on FX.

I guess that I came from a different background relating to "Cheating" that you say is ingrained in the American culture. My parents would have provided a stiff punishment if my brothers or myself had done anything in school or sports that came close to cheating. I never stepped on another players legs with my football shoes in any football game. I never intentionally tried to hurt another player in basketball. My buddies and I loved being on the football field or in the gym so we never cheated our practice routine. In college I never missed a practice with some lame excuse and if a player missed practice when I coached he would get the 3rd degree. I never cheated on a test and am trying to recall any time I even wanted to think about cheating in anything especially involving my marriage. There must be millions of others like me still alive Oracle. We get afforded when you say crap like that and I only mentioned the KGB because they used to target weak people who do cheat.

If or when the new rule forbidding targeting horrible free throw shooters does take effect, it will only hurt the game. But that is my opinion and everyone has a different opinion about most things involving basketball. But on behalf of all my friends who were good basketball players, to a man those people reject your nonsense about this issue. It is another cop out to make sure the wise people Plato wrote about (power elite) decide what is best for us. We must change the rule to make it fair for the players who can't shoot well from the free throw line. Try to do that in the playground Oracle. You would be laughed off the court. Players want to win and they know they need an edge to win so if you are weak in some area of playing basketball they feel that it is fair to exploit that weakness. In 10 years you can scream when an opposing players decides to foul Drummond. THAT IS INTENTIONAL MR. OFFICIAL! You must penalize those bastards. And that leads me to another question. What do you think the punishment should be when someone fouls Drummond as the officials guess if it was intentional or not? Do the officials let one go and then pounce on the opposing player if he does it again within a minute from the first foul? Should they cut off one hand of the head coach or just give out a two shot technical where the Pistons best foul shooter gets to go to the line? This is madness but then we live in "A CULTURE OF CHEATING".

I have no disagreement with you regarding the special rules dedicated for more scoring and I did mention that. And the strategy of targeting bad free throw shooters has been around for a long time where a lot of smart basketball minds would never change it. It is part of the game but after the lawyers in the NBA front office determines what is fair for the players and fans, little kids will never know any better. Nothing in life is fair but that doesn't mean that Americans are swimming in this cheating culture when the KGB propaganda identified Americans as capitalist pigs. "We will bury you". Who said that?

I want the rules to stay the same and for Andre Drummond to come back next fall with new ammo to tell the world, please foul me because I am not afraid anymore. I am sure that is what he wants Oracle.

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GM Stan and Friends

Post  Sebastian on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:15 am

Okay, Stan Van Gundy has been in full GM-mode, since finishing his first season at 32-50 on April 15th. Now, GM Stan has to get back to building this team to becoming a winning NBA team.

Personally, I am not going to become to attached to a particular guy to draft, until the Lottery order has been determined. If the kid, Stanley Johnson is still on the clock when WE pick then I would be down with drafting him - only based on the analysis and reports provided by Don and DX, and a may have forgotten who else, but every time I saw the kid he was just hovering around the college three point line not really doing much. But, who knows, I only have two eyes.

But, let's take a moment to review the the past season. Since Stan has been GM/Head Coach, he has had personnel transactions with three different teams: Boston, OKC, and Phoenix. There were two different transactions with Boston (Will. B. for Joel Anthony, Jerebko and Linguinie for Tay); OKC: Singler and Augustine for Reggie Jackson; and Phoenix (Tolliever for what?). I feel that the trade with Phoenix up to this date is yet to be completed.

I am hoping like hell that Stan Van Gundy has the ability to sign Moose with his 5th year and everything that he wants with the condition of completing a S/T for the Morris twins. It is common NBA talk that the Suns are growing tired of the Morris twins. And, every GM in the League know that the Morris twins come as a pair. Their contracts together is roughly $13 million each year through the 2018-19 season.

I would much rather have the Morris twins until the centennial celebration of Women's Suffrage than one Moose.
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Absolutely GREAT article on Josh!

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:55 pm

"Smith combined with fellow midseason acquisition Corey Brewer to turn the Rockets’ reserves into a fast-break machine, playing small-ball center on defense while assuming ballhandling and distributing duties with Harden off the court. Freed of the Pistons’ misery factory, Smoove reminded everyone why he commanded such a big salary from Detroit in the first place — his versatility on both sides of the ball is nearly unmatched, as long as you don’t play him at dang small forward (or ask him to be a stretch four). Sure, he’s turning the ball over way too much, but it’s a fair trade for passing like this:" - Guess What Kevin McHale Whispered In Josh Smith’s Ear After Getting Punched In The Shoulder?

I'm really happy for him!

Now for the practical stuff! How much can we shave off the money we pay him if Houston signs him to a contract next year?
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Merc..

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:51 pm

merc wrote:Oracle.. if you don't mind I'd like to use OC for your nick (only with your permission).... It's easy to dismiss Euros with our poor track record... we can't do that, there's been too many successful FIBA & Latin players to ignore.... that said this team is not in a position to add a specialist... Porzingis could tick the right boxes considering he is the polar opposite of Monroe yet he has no strength to defend NBA PFs... he could be an ideal fit off the bench.
Unfortunately we need players that use force (Carlisle moment).
Johnson provides everything we need... he's strong enough to switch on PFs... while he may not yet have great range... he's got enough to draw defenders out of the scrum in the paint.

This is good time to jump into the draft choices with the lotto only 22 days away... the draft on June 26.
Could this be another year where a consensus top 5 pick slides down to the spot that the Pistons have squatters rights (eigth)?

This is the first year in a long time where one good move puts us in the playoffs... two could get us in the top 4 in the East (don't laugh)... Why not get excited?

Merc, you can call me anything, just don't call me late for dinner or the draft lol

I do like Euro's, I just haven't been warm for any of the ones they have us taking, although Porzingis is a lot closer to what I would want. He shoots deep well, and he has great size, about 7'1. The problem I have with him is that he's WAFER THIN!

The scouting report on him is that he runs from contact, and can't hold his position against anyone! There are a lot of good players in the Euro Leagues, and you're right, we just haven't had any success, but IMO, we can't stop trying.

So having said that, my biggest gripe was that I can't see passing over Johnson to get this guy! Johnson LOCKS up the SF position for years for us, Porzingis, like you said would be nice off the bench, but that's not what we need.

Now, some people have said that Marcus Camby wasn't much bigger, but this kid, and he is 19, is thinner, and who knows where his body goes in 2-3 years. Maybe he bulks up, maybe not, but in Johnson, we know we get a hard working gym rat with a body that screams "Start Me Yesterday"!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:11 pm

Oracle.. if you don't mind I'd like to use OC for your nick (only with your permission).... It's easy to dismiss Euros with our poor track record... we can't do that, there's been too many successful FIBA & Latin players to ignore.... that said this team is not in a position to add a specialist... Porzingis could tick the right boxes considering he is the polar opposite of Monroe yet he has no strength to defend NBA PFs... he could be an ideal fit off the bench.
Unfortunately we need players that use force (Carlisle moment).
Johnson provides everything we need... he's strong enough to switch on PFs... while he may not yet have great range... he's got enough to draw defenders out of the scrum in the paint.

This is good time to jump into the draft choices with the lotto only 22 days away... the draft on June 26.
Could this be another year where a consensus top 5 pick slides down to the spot that the Pistons have squatters rights (eigth)?

This is the first year in a long time where one good move puts us in the playoffs... two could get us in the top 4 in the East (don't laugh)... Why not get excited?
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Korver wins Dumars Trophy... but

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:50 pm

Joe likely loses bid to take over the Pelicans GM job, as the owner endorses the GM & Coach for a great season!
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Don

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:35 pm

Don wrote:"Cheating is embedded in the American Culture"- quote from the great Oracle.

Thanks for that! Oracle have you been watching the series "The Americans"? Are you a former KGB agent? What you are saying is pure propaganda that might have been used by the Soviet Union with their infiltration efforts at another time in history. I haven't heard that crap for years.  So Oracle is American an evil place or is our country really "The Great Satan" as our current enemies give as the reason why they must kill all of us.  Cheating would be alive and well if the NBA creates a special rule to prevent teams from intentionally fouling in my mind. Should the NBA create special "FAIR" rules for people who want to play in the NBA but are only 4 foot tall? Maybe the front office could lower the height of the rim just to be fair. How should the no foul rule apply to situations where you are ahead by 3 points and there is only seconds left on the clock? Do you want to prevent a team from committing an intentional foul to prevent a 3 point play? Will the officials have to now guess if the foul is intentional or not based on a player's free throw percentage(obviously you don't know basketball, or you'd know they don't have to guess, there's a rock solid definition)? Most likely you do Oracle. Then we can wait for more huddles at the scorers table as the officials sort it all out. - Where did that crazy stuff come from? I've never heard of a series called the Americans, you're sounding like a 50's communist scare dude! Of course cheating is built in to American culture! What's one of the first things we learn in sports? If you are WRONG, lie about it if you didn't get caught. If the ball went out on you and the officials make a mistake, don't tell the truth because winning is more important than CHARACTER, even when the games don't count for anything!

Shocking that a guy that keeps saying that players should play the right way and have good values doesn't recognize real values!

On to the subject, if intentional fouling was just fine, then why in the world do they stop at the 2 minute mark? They don't stop anything else, why that? Because it has NOTHING to do with basketball, and interferes with the game, that's why!

You don't need to ask the questions you ask if you base things on values rather than what you want to happen! Intentional fouling is wrong for ANY purpose, and should be a foul in and of itself... base your decision on fundamentals, at least that's the line you keep feeding our bigs, or is that situational for you?

We watched drama develop in this last game between the Clippers and Spurs relating to hacking Jordan. As Reggie Miller said last night, most likely the NBA will screw with the rules again to dummy things down even more for the dummies. Miller and many others are against a rule change for obvious reasons. Intentionally fouling players has gone on for many years. The team that I coached lost a conference championship because our power forward had no confidence in himself at the line in pressure situations. He could make 8 out of 10 in practice most of the time. We lost the game by one point and he was sent to the line 4 times in the last minute and 30 seconds. This power forward didn't sulk or cry like a baby.  Next season the same player made two game winning free throws along with 8 others to sent our team to the semi finals in the State tournament. I will never forget how he felt after that game. He was a man! Our team also defeated a really good team in the State championship when I called for our players to foul the opposing team's center. We won the game after his misses. This guy went on to play in the Big Ten as an All Conference player. His free throw shooting became a non issue when he played in college. For sure having that weight on his shoulders of his team losing because of his lack of practice or ability to hit a pressure free throws made him stronger mentally because of what had happened in that game in high school. Something good came out of the hacking intentional foul situation Oracle. But some do believe there is evil lurking in the shadows everywhere so we need a power elite force of gifted special people to determine what is best for everyone. I get it Oracle you are looking out for the greater good. - Can some good come out of something bad? Yeah, but again, that's not the question, except for the cheaters! Note that nobody is calling anything EVIL except you, and nobody sees conspiracy theories except you... Don take your meds!

Andre Drummond will welcome the rule change next season. He is in the record books as the worst free throw shooter in the entire NBA for this season. Imagine if Andre could only work hard enough to get his percentage up to 70% next year and there is no rule change. We would all be so proud of Andre. He would be proud of himself too. You say the lack of a rule to prevent hacking inept free throw shooters is cheating while I believe not adding any new stupid rule will encourage players like Drummond to practice his ass off to avoid certain humiliation next year and in the end feel really good about himself. There is no doubt that Drummond can become a really good free throw shooter. But with the new "special rule change" we fans will see more and more players who could care less about improving themselves. The poor free throw shooters will continue to listen to their agents who will insist that they spend their energy on building good stats with dunks and meaningless rebounds when the game is not on the line.

You whining about what's right, I notice you didn't make an argument about it being a part of the game in any way, this is fuzzy thinking, full of conspiracy theories, communist, and evil demons lurking in the rule books.

Also as I told you before your rant, none of this has anything to do with players learning the fundamentals, they should for real basketball reasons.

I don't hear you complaining about the "Special Rules" to allow more scoring, or the "Special Rules" for big men as opposed to guards, but cleaning up the game is something cheaters just can't stand for... sheesh!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:06 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:Oracle wouldn't changing the rules to prevent intentional fouls on weak free throw shooters make Andre Drummond happy? Gosh then we can look forward to watching him get worse. He did get worse this season when compared to the previous season. Face it the only teams that want to banish using intentional fouls against weak NBA players as part of their strategy to win games are teams who have key players who can't shoot free throws. If the league changes the rules, then they have made a statement that the NBA encourages bad habits and eliminates another potential strategy teams can use against each other. As it is, the NBA has become a league for dummies rather than producing excellent complete basketball players.
I specifically didn't address Drummond or any other team, I addressed what's right!

Intentional fouling is NOT a part of the game, that's the point, nothing else, and it has ZERO to do with pressure to learn fundamentals or sending messages other than the NBA should be about basketball!This is a FLAW in the sport of basketball... period!

It's the kind of cheating that's embedded into American Culture so deeply, you don't even see it for what it is!

"Cheating is embedded in the American Culture"- quote from the great Oracle.

Thanks for that! Oracle have you been watching the series "The Americans"? Are you a former KGB agent? What you are saying is pure propaganda that might have been used by the Soviet Union with their infiltration efforts at another time in history. I haven't heard that crap for years.  So Oracle is American an evil place or is our country really "The Great Satan" as our current enemies give as the reason why they must kill all of us.  Cheating would be alive and well if the NBA creates a special rule to prevent teams from intentionally fouling in my mind. Should the NBA create special "FAIR" rules for people who want to play in the NBA but are only 4 foot tall? Maybe the front office could lower the height of the rim just to be fair. How should the no foul rule apply to situations where you are ahead by 3 points and there is only seconds left on the clock? Do you want to prevent a team from committing an intentional foul to prevent a 3 point play? Will the officials have to now guess if the foul is intentional or not based on a player's free throw percentage? Most likely you do Oracle. Then we can wait for more huddles at the scorers table as the officials sort it all out.

We watched drama develop in this last game between the Clippers and Spurs relating to hacking Jordan. As Reggie Miller said last night, most likely the NBA will screw with the rules again to dummy things down even more for the dummies. Miller and many others are against a rule change for obvious reasons. Intentionally fouling players has gone on for many years. The team that I coached lost a conference championship because our power forward had no confidence in himself at the line in pressure situations. He could make 8 out of 10 in practice most of the time. We lost the game by one point and he was sent to the line 4 times in the last minute and 30 seconds. This power forward didn't sulk or cry like a baby.  Next season the same player made two game winning free throws along with 8 others to sent our team to the semi finals in the State tournament. I will never forget how he felt after that game. He was a man! Our team also defeated a really good team in the State championship when I called for our players to foul the opposing team's center. We won the game after his misses. This guy went on to play in the Big Ten as an All Conference player. His free throw shooting became a non issue when he played in college. For sure having that weight on his shoulders of his team losing because of his lack of practice or ability to hit a pressure free throws made him stronger mentally because of what had happened in that game in high school. Something good came out of the hacking intentional foul situation Oracle. But some do believe there is evil lurking in the shadows everywhere so we need a power elite force of gifted special people to determine what is best for everyone. I get it Oracle you are looking out for the greater good.

Andre Drummond will welcome the rule change next season. He is in the record books as the worst free throw shooter in the entire NBA for this season. Imagine if Andre could only work hard enough to get his percentage up to 70% next year and there is no rule change. We would all be so proud of Andre. He would be proud of himself too. You say the lack of a rule to prevent hacking inept free throw shooters is cheating while I believe not adding any new stupid rule will encourage players like Drummond to practice his ass off to avoid certain humiliation next year and in the end feel really good about himself. There is no doubt that Drummond can become a really good free throw shooter. But with the new "special rule change" we fans will see more and more players who could care less about improving themselves. The poor free throw shooters will continue to listen to their agents who will insist that they spend their energy on building good stats with dunks and meaningless rebounds when the game is not on the line.

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They have us passing on Stanley Johnson to pick...

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:25 pm

8.Kristaps Porzingis 
PF (Sevilla - International) 
19.7 years old | 7'0" | 220 lbs 

2013-14 Eurocup, ACB (46 GP)
  11.0PPG    4.5RPG    0.5APG    20.7PER  
 
Watch VideoWith Greg Monroe an unrestricted free agent, the Pistons are likely to be in the market for a starting power forward soon, one that compliments their stud starting center Andre Drummond. Having a floor spacer at that spot like Porzingis, instead of another post-oriented big man, could be beneficial for their offense. Frank Kaminsky and Myles Turner will likely get a long look here, as will bigger wing players like Stanley Johnson, Kelly Oubre and Mario Hezonja.

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3YjC99J9l




9.Stanley Johnson 
SF (Arizona - Freshman) 
18.9 years old | 6'8" | 243 lbs 



2013-14 NCAA (38 GP)
  13.8PPG    6.5RPG    1.7APG    23.0PER  

 
Watch VideoCharlotte appears to have moved on from the Lance Stephenson experiment, and after using two top-10 picks on Cody Zeller and Noah Vonleh the last two years, could very well be looking to upgrade on the wing, which has long been their weakest link. Stanley Johnson could pair with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist to form one of the strongest, toughest and most defensive minded 2/3 combos in the NBA, with the added benefit of being able to play small and guard a variety of different positions. Shooting is also at a premium for the Hornets, who could also take a look at Kaminsky, Turner, Porzingis or an offensive minded wing like Mario Hezonja or Devin Booker.
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DX

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:16 pm


deusXango wrote:Wise, I'm grateful for the support, but I'm okay, really. You don't survive as long as I have and come from where I have, and have thin skin. It's where I am in my life, at this time, that negative, combative, nonsense, has no place in my heart. Before I go any further, this wasn't about Quincy Miller, it's all about dignity and respect. If you read back over my posts regarding QM and find anything that was offensive to anyone, I trust you to point them out, because it was never my intentions to offend anyone; I don't find it necessary to make my point.

Where's Sparma, and why did he drop off the landscape? I really enjoyed his thought provoking posts, and always a gentleman. I wandered. - Amazing you wonder, when Sparma got BUSTED for lying, he didn't want to take the heat. I like Sparma, but if you wonder about anything, it should be why he did that!

Where am I today? With the sh!t going on in the neighborhoods of America and the chaos that's been ignited by self-righteous, malice driven, thoughtless mutha f#ckas, when I retreat to this medium of temporary escape from the ills of the real world, I personally don't want to see dumb sh!t reflected here, and damn sure don't want to be a part of it. When Flip put this site together, I don't remember him appointing (or a subsequent vote being taken) a forum police, whose skill and duty it was to read minds, read between lines, discern true intentions of a poster, and once it was determined it didn't meet up to the "laws" standards of acceptance, twist words, settle on the most inane point and make a mountain out of it, in short, do all the sh!t they'd have a problem with if they thought was being done to them. No, it's not about Quincy Miller, it's about a reflection of what's going on in the world today, OVERKILL!!!

Wise, there's a difference between taking a stand for player(s) you like and making direct, relentless attacks, on someone you disagree with. I never like Singler as a player, but Don supported him right down the line; Don is one of my favorite posters, because I respect his knowledge, passion, and he shows respect to all. Another one of my true brothers is Sebastian, who I have great respect for also, and we've had some epic debates over Rodney Norvell Stuckey, but none were ever taken personally or we found it necessary to be offensive to each other, in order to make a point. And you Wise; how many times have you "gone up side my head" about a particular point? Never was there any malice, never did you "beat on a dead horse" over it, and never have we lost mutual respect for one another, and it goes far beyond the many things about basketball we see eye-to-eye on...genuine respect. Hurt people, hurt people, and I don't think (would hate to think) any of us are hurting, suffering, and alone with pain, so I'm not finding any excuses for......where the hell is Sparma?!

I find that when the heat is on and people have their backs up, it's best to back off until things cool off, then revisit whatever it is when cooler heads can prevail. Of course there's instances when that doesn't happen, but then physco-sessions are needed, whether they get them or not. - DX, where was the heat? You're just like Sparma, you're making up excuses for getting busted using your own words and actions. Nobody made up what you did, it's all you, you just need a scape goat for your actions.

There's no shame in liking QM so much that you can't accept just giving him a shot, but for you, admitting that you want everyone to be as gung ho on him as you are is something you don't want to do, because you know how strange it would sound.

But if that's how you feel, you should just embrace it! It's time to come out of the closet, so to speak, and admit that you see greatness in QM that we don't!

Don't let fear of being wrong stop you, it didn't stop Wise! It didn't stop Don on Singler, Middleton, Afflalo and Knight!

So when I called you on it, that wasn't an attack, how could it be when describing your actions, it was an opportunity for you to tell the truth....
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DX

Post  WTF on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:41 pm

DX, you know I got much love for you and you're a genuine down to earth cat much like myself. I'm just trying a little intervention I know where you're coming from.

I have a great deal of respect for my pal Oracle but yes he can come off a tad bit of an ass hole tb he's still my homie though. Man I've been fighting and debating this cat for quite some time now he's strong headed stubborn, short on patience and yes he like to to read minds inaccurately from time to time but what do you expect from an Oracle lol Man you're lucky Tha Show isn't around he was 10 times the pompus ass Oracle is. In a nutshell lets just say Oracle isn't exactly user friendly at times but he's a valued part of the forum just like all the rest of us and he knows his basketball.

Nothing wrong with taking a break I do it so I hope that's all Sparma is doing as well I would hate to lose him.

Plus at the end of the day it's all just another mans opinion on a subject we all love even though it stinks talking about them lately. Forums aren't for all of to come together and agree but only to agree to disagree. Still this **** ain't that serious in the big scheme of things
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'Yo Wise

Post  deusXango on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:12 pm

Wise, I'm grateful for the support, but I'm okay, really. You don't survive as long as I have and come from where I have, and have thin skin. It's where I am in my life, at this time, that negative, combative, nonsense, has no place in my heart. Before I go any further, this wasn't about Quincy Miller, it's all about dignity and respect. If you read back over my posts regarding QM and find anything that was offensive to anyone, I trust you to point them out, because it was never my intentions to offend anyone; I don't find it necessary to make my point.

Where's Sparma, and why did he drop off the landscape? I really enjoyed his thought provoking posts, and always a gentleman. I wandered.

Where am I today? With the sh!t going on in the neighborhoods of America and the chaos that's been ignited by self-righteous, malice driven, thoughtless mutha f#ckas, when I retreat to this medium of temporary escape from the ills of the real world, I personally don't want to see dumb sh!t reflected here, and damn sure don't want to be a part of it. When Flip put this site together, I don't remember him appointing (or a subsequent vote being taken) a forum police, whose skill and duty it was to read minds, read between lines, discern true intentions of a poster, and once it was determined it didn't meet up to the "laws" standards of acceptance, twist words, settle on the most inane point and make a mountain out of it, in short, do all the sh!t they'd have a problem with if they thought was being done to them. No, it's not about Quincy Miller, it's about a reflection of what's going on in the world today, OVERKILL!!!

Wise, there's a difference between taking a stand for player(s) you like and making direct, relentless attacks, on someone you disagree with. I never like Singler as a player, but Don supported him right down the line; Don is one of my favorite posters, because I respect his knowledge, passion, and he shows respect to all. Another one of my true brothers is Sebastian, who I have great respect for also, and we've had some epic debates over Rodney Norvell Stuckey, but none were ever taken personally or we found it necessary to be offensive to each other, in order to make a point. And you Wise; how many times have you "gone up side my head" about a particular point? Never was there any malice, never did you "beat on a dead horse" over it, and never have we lost mutual respect for one another, and it goes far beyond the many things about basketball we see eye-to-eye on...genuine respect. Hurt people, hurt people, and I don't think (would hate to think) any of us are hurting, suffering, and alone with pain, so I'm not finding any excuses for......where the hell is Sparma?!

I find that when the heat is on and people have their backs up, it's best to back off until things cool off, then revisit whatever it is when cooler heads can prevail. Of course there's instances when that doesn't happen, but then physco-sessions are needed, whether they get them or not.
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Congratulations Josh Smith ...

Post  Sebastian on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:38 am

You are going to the 2nd Round of the 2014-2015 Western Conference Playoffs.

Yes, Josh Smith-haters, OUR former max player will be playing competitive basketball during the month of May.

In the 1st Round series against the Mavs, Josh averaged: 17.4 pts., 5.8 rbs., 3.8 ast. in a reserve role. In the closeout 5th game of their Round 1 victory, Josh scored 20 points, 4 more than the entire Mavs bench.

What if GM Stan/Head Coach Stan wasn't so damn afraid of Josh and had him play in a reserve capacity, similar to Kevin McHale who by the way never appeared to be afraid of Josh like little 'ole, fat Stan?

In year two in his dual capacity, Stan Van Gundy has to improve tremendously.

Footnote: Here's a consolation to the Josh Smith-haters, if the Spurs are the 2nd Round opponent to the Rockets my crystal ball tells me that Josh's propensity to turn the ball over will spell their doom. Josh did average 2.4 turnovers, during the 1st Round.

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Recruiting Party

Post  WTF on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:18 am

Oracle, Yeah we do need to recruit new posters, I wish we had all our old Piston Talk folks here posting with us still. heck where has our creator of this forum gone to.

DX, You got to have tough skin when you champion players like QM. Do you know how much bashing I got for supporting Kwame Brown and Charlie V in the past? Man I watched Kwame whip on Shaq's ass and Charlie as a Buck use to give Sheed and Big Ben fits. Both get here and and instantly become worthless but I never gave up?

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Oh The Madness!!!!! Tolerance and Sensitivity

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:39 am

Wise, two things about the Monroe issue.

1. Yes, you're correct that you had that position early, and almost nobody else thought it was a good idea. However, DX knows that the entire forum had recently come around to letting Monroe walk and just keep going.

However, since his recent talk of possibly staying, additional ideas have and should be floated, but nobody would lose any sleep if Monroe just walks anymore. DX knows this!

2. This faux Monroe outrage is a smoke screen for what he didn't respond to, but you smartly caught... the QM drama! DX is upset about being exposed on the QM issue, notice he had no outrage there.

Then he somehow believes that he can punish the entire board by giving up. What is he giving up on? Who knows, there's too much good stuff going on to think about this, we need some new blood anyway.

When I post on the other talking head pages, I'll start recruiting like Flip did! I suggest everyone else do the same.

"DX, don't stop debating if you believe in what your saying about QM I started the Kwame Brown Fan Club and never gave in, I started the Charlie V Fan Club, and the Josh Smith Fan Club and never gave in." - Wise

He believes in what he's saying, and NOBODY has a problem with him fully supporting QM and hoping for his success, that's not the issue here, hell, we all want any Piston to succeed! It's that DX can't accept that we want to give QM a shot, and post after post he fakes outrage over something that has never been said.

When forced to confront that he hides lol ... you can't make up the silliness that goes on here!
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Oh The Madness!!!!! Tolerance and Sensitivity

Post  WTF on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:13 am

Oracle wrote:
deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:But for some reason, you simply don't read it...
I'm not alone brother.

Just like your Monroe posts tend to start out with "I know this is unpopular" referring to moving Monroe! Really???

Everybody wants to move him, why haven't you got that memo? We're only dicking around about how best to do it!
"I know that I'm taking an unpopular stance, but I'm all for letting Monroe walk, for a number of reasons, the most glaring is, he wants too much money and attention for what he brings to THIS team." I believe this is how I started my post (singular time I posted that way) and it wasn't about moving him, it was about letting him move on without compensation, and I know that's not what the average wants!

Oracle, I give, you win, you're absolutely correct on all points; I yield, I'll cease and desist from making any posts, that way I won't sport my ignorance.


Bye!

Really this QM debate have driven one of you insane and the other bunkers.  

DX, Oracle is correct that no one has said QM doesn't deserve opportunity or should we say more opportunity. What we said is that he has had opportunities and haven't taken full advantage of it when he has.  IMO you should remove the thought of conspiracies that he's somehow has not been afforded opportunities beyond basketball reasoning.  You have to ask yourself what is it he's not doing as Oracle stated "to blow the coaches hair back and them wanting to see more"  

As for the Chauncey comment I don't think either myself of Oracle were comparing players, positions but simply the path toward getting opportunities, lets keep in mind Chauncey was a lottery pick that alone say's he'll be afforded more opportunities example would be Darko who QM might heads above as a player but being that Darko was a #2 overall he was given more opportunities rest assure if Darko was picked #54 his ass would have been back in Russia before the ink dried on his contract.  

Okay I get it you like QM you see something the rest of us aren't seeing, that the coaches aren't seeing.  Hell I use to champion for Kwame Brown because I saw something in Kwame no one else was seeing in fact I rather have Kwame over Moose right now today tb

DX, don't stop debating if you believe in what your saying about QM I started the Kwame Brown Fan Club and never gave in, I started the Charlie V Fan Club, and the Josh Smith Fan Club and never gave in.

Oracle, you did jump the gun on DX's Monroe comments I was the only one willing to just let his ass walk without compensation and many were so gunho about value and getting something in return. I was always for being happy just not having his ass on the books as compensation I think that's where DX was headed with his statement. Letting Moose ass just walk has been unpopular remember me you and Sparma went back and forth when I suggested it during free agency before the season started.

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