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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:28 pm

Don, would like to read your post... just can't separate one big ass sentence... I'm sure it was good.
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WoW I like what Stan The Man is preaching to his players

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:13 pm

This might be a new world for Piston fans this season or the next. SVG is insisting on high level defensive effort. And he believes that he has the right players to do it. Could it be that he might be the perfect coach for Josh Smith? If so I will join the Josh Smith Fan Club and send a case of wine to Wisefan the creator of this club. As SVG describes, he has two potentially elite big man defenders in Smith and Drummond. And he hopes that Monroe will take a few charges as well. I like what he is saying about KCP as well. KCP, Smith, Drummond and Augustin playing hard in your face defense refusing to give up easy baskets will bring in the fans for sure. This team needs some backing from the fans. I hope that season ticket sales are going in the right direction.

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Sounds like Monroe off the bench to me....

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:23 pm

Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois
Follow
SVG on @AndreDrummondd: "If he wants to be, he’s a Defensive Player of the Year type of guy. And so is Josh (Smith)."
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Get rich quick schemes ...

Post  Sebastian on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:24 pm

Oracle wrote:Since the season is about to start, we may as well get all of our off topic stuff out of the way Smile

California has instituted a new law at universities that requires a man accused of rape to, instead of being presented with evidence that he committed a crime, he has to prove that she's lying and that he didn't do it!

In short, the poor dumb smuck is GUILTY until proven innocent!

Then there's this:  In 2009, Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys was in this picture.

 

Now she's suing(after all these years) saying that he touched her on her private parts! Ok, I don't believe in forcing anyone, but looking at that picture, it's hard for me to believe that all she wanted was a happy meal! But the main point is that it's all accusations... wow!

Story here: Jerry Jones accused of sexual assault in lawsuit related to racy photos

That's why I agreed with the the Baltimore Ravens owner, when he said something to the affect, during his press conference a couple weeks ago, that going forward there will need to be some checks-and-balances installed with the NFL domestic abuse penalties, because as he said: you never know if the allegations are really true.

Folks are trying to hit that big pay day and this woman in the photograph is really trying to get into Jerry's pockets! hehe
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Off Topic: WTF is Next

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:12 pm

Since the season is about to start, we may as well get all of our off topic stuff out of the way Smile

California has instituted a new law at universities that requires a man accused of rape to, instead of being presented with evidence that he committed a crime, he has to prove that she's lying and that he didn't do it!

In short, the poor dumb smuck is GUILTY until proven innocent!

Then there's this:  In 2009, Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys was in this picture.

 

Now she's suing(after all these years) saying that he touched her on her private parts! Ok, I don't believe in forcing anyone, but looking at that picture, it's hard for me to believe that all she wanted was a happy meal! But the main point is that it's all accusations... wow!

Story here: Jerry Jones accused of sexual assault in lawsuit related to racy photos
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Monroe: Now this I believe...

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:59 pm

On not committing to Detroit long-term:
"It's no disrespect to the people working here but it was just tough for me to agree to another four years with new people," Monroe said. "Honestly, if you were to ask the average person would they do that in the arena they're in, they'd say no."
He wanted to make clear he's fully embraced the city and its fans, details that often get caught in the crossfire of a player looking for a new situation.


"I can't speak for everybody but in my case, when talking about leaving Detroit, it was the team specifically," Monroe said. "I have no problem with the city, or the fans or the people. I don't have a problem with anyone here. I've been received with open arms. People have always shown me love. Fans, they've stuck with us through tough times."

Moose was loyal to Joe!

Joe brought him here, Joe believed in him during his early struggles, Joe was the constant!

He doesn't know these new dudes! He wasn't like Drummond, very close to Gores, and he doesn't know SVG.

Having said that and understanding where he's coming from, I still find it a bit immature to make business decision based on that info. There is enough information out there about Gores, and his treatment of Knight, and SVG has a solid history to review.

So IMO, he flat out doesn't trust the new guys, and wants to move on, but before he moves on, he needs to appear like he might want to stay and be nice so that he can get max PT from SVG!

If SVG is smart, and I know he is, he needs to give Monroe as much PT as needed, but he shouldn't start him except where matchup demand it, or injury!
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I'm the leader, no I'm the leader...

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:37 pm

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Ebola

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:36 pm

deusXango wrote:Ebola has a kill ratio of 90%!!! WTF is on the minds of our country's leaders bringing that sh!t here, in the guise of noble doctors (carriers!) who've contacted the Ebola virus, instead of transporting whatever help, "cures," or concerned family members to the site of contamination? We don't have adequate nationwide containment facilities for our populace should this AIR BORNE virus get loose on American soil!!!
Dumb ass mutha' fuckas'! mad

Back to regular programming....let me tuck my head firmly in the sand.

Well, the virus is no longer outside us, it's now officially in us!

Although they say it's not airborne, I can't count how many times they've been wrong, so the short answer is, they may be right, but they may be wrong!

Unfortunately, it'll take checking for carcasses to determine who's right!
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Monroe interview in the Detroit News

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:41 am

Only around one in a million really good high school basketball players can make a living in the NBA. Greg Monroe is one of those players. There is no doubt that Joe Dumars and Piston owners were not good leaders over the past 6 to 8 seasons. Sure players like Monroe had to endure 4 different coaching staffs in 4 seasons. However, how did Monroe respond to adversity? He might have kept his mouth shut and just tried to count time until his contract was up. Or maybe he tried to be a voice of reason in the locker room and maybe made a few statements to his teammates trying to improve the chemistry of the dysfunctional teams he played on. But did he ever do anything relating to leadership by example to help improve the situation through his play on the court? Can Greg account for the fact that he failed to improve on defense in 4 years of playing a lot of minutes. After all, horrible team defense was the cause of so many Piston loses in that time period. It seems to me that at least one coach including all of the assistant coaches Greg experienced in those four seasons would be classified as someone who had past success in helping big men improve their defense. Has Greg ever ask himself why he just can grasp the concepts of playing NBA style team defense? Would Labron James tolerate the way Greg strays out to the perimeter too much or makes the wrong decisions defending pick and roll plays? The devil is in the details Greg. Until a person becomes introspective, they can never get better. Greg wants to be understood. He wants to be known as a good guy. I have no doubt that he is not a good man. But can Greg Monroe improve his defense enough for a coach to trust him in crunch time situations? No coach to this point in time has trusted Monroe at the end of basketball games. That he why is has been on the bench at the end. There is no doubt that overall at this exact point in time, Monroe is a better center than Drummond from an offensive prospective. But Monroe cannot do the things that Drummond can do on defense. I am sure that Stan Van Gundy will cut through all the nonsense and tell Monroe what is expected of him if he expects to be a starter. It has nothing to do with signing or not signing his contract. That is BS Greg. You are trying to spin the truth to your benefit to get the love from the fans. But the fans actually have watched the way you have played in the past. It is you who needs to change Mr. Monroe or continue on and find a new home elsewhere.

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Bits and Pieces

Post  deusXango on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:42 am

Oracle wrote:From the Article: Kyle Singler and Detroit's Window

http://pistonpowered.com/2014/10/01/kyle-singler-detroits-window/ wrote:A lot of fans think that Kyle Singler doesn’t have what it takes to start in the NBA and that Detroit needs to bring a new starting small forward in (Caron Butler is not the answer. His defense at the 3 was pretty bad last season). Singler is a quality starter, and while he may better fit as a backup on a championship team, Detroit isn’t there yet, and Singler is a fine player that can help lead to Detroit being an attractive free agent destination.


Last season, Detroit painfully played two three players out of position – one & two (Josh Smith and Greg Monroe) for the full season, the other (Singler) for about half of the season. When players are playing out of position, there are usually a few reasons why they may not be as effective.


From playing "small ball" to playing players out of position we had become accustomed to those unsuccessful "Frankenstein" lineups which once corrected, the won/lost record will improve drastically. I projected 41 wins this season, but anyone who see more have SVG in the Coach of the Year conversation and they have made a better than fair assessment.

Drummond has openly stated he wanted to take over the leadership reigns of the team and earlier hinted at being alright with coming off the bench to preserve the Big 3 staying intact; come off the bench and lead from there! I think the most formidable bench in the NBA is right here in Detroit:

C- Drummond
PF-Monroe/J.J.
SF-Butler/Datome
SG-KCP
PG-Augustin

Yeah, I'm suggesting starting Monroe and Smith in the paint (don't think they'll be bad at all), but that 2nd unit could be awesome, even rivaling the starters once they established some chemistry. Augustin/Drummond pick and rolls, Butler and J.J. from the outside, and KCP all over the place, we'd be something offensively, but on defense....well that's why they're the 2nd unit!

Swallow Gray's contract and let him go. He doesn't need his life endangered and we don't need to run the risk of that type emotional bump in the road.

Mitchell off to the D-League and what can we get for Bynum? I'll take it!

Can't wait to see KCP and Dinwiddie together in top form.

The 1st exhibition game can't get here fast enough.

Let's get this party started!!
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Kyle Singler and Detroit's Window

Post  deusXango on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:04 am

Oracle wrote:From the Article: Kyle Singler and Detroit's Window

http://pistonpowered.com/2014/10/01/kyle-singler-detroits-window/ wrote:A lot of fans think that Kyle Singler doesn’t have what it takes to start in the NBA and that Detroit needs to bring a new starting small forward in (Caron Butler is not the answer. His defense at the 3 was pretty bad last season). Singler is a quality starter, and while he may better fit as a backup on a championship team, Detroit isn’t there yet, and Singler is a fine player that can help lead to Detroit being an attractive free agent destination.


Last season, Detroit painfully played two players out of position – one (Josh Smith) for the full season, the other (Singler) for about half of the season. When players are playing out of position, there are usually a few reasons why they may not be as effective.


But how in the world do they show a picture of JJ and call him Singler????

We don't all look alike mofo lol

Damn, I thought that was Will Bynum!
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Article

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:23 am

This article had some other interesting tidbits, but this was a HUGE problem last year, and if SVG changes this, my prediction or 44 games will seem low!!!


http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/10/detroit_pistons_notes_stan_van.html wrote:A prophetic scouting report: Caron Butler played much of last season for the NBA-worst Milwaukee Bucks (15-67) until he was released in a money-saving goodwill gesture which allowed him to sign with Oklahoma City. While with the Bucks, Butler scorched the Pistons with 30 points off the bench in a 104-101 win Jan. 22 at Milwaukee. A reporter asked this week what the scouting report was when playing Detroit last year. "If you continue to play for 48 minutes, at some point, they will derail and not maintain and stay the course," Butler replied. "And that was our thing. They gave us three quarters of hell and then, in the fourth quarter, we were just able to pull away with the game." The Pistons were last in the NBA in average fourth-quarter scoring differential last year at minus-2.4 points.
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Kyle Singler and Detroit's Window

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:19 am

From the Article: Kyle Singler and Detroit's Window

http://pistonpowered.com/2014/10/01/kyle-singler-detroits-window/ wrote:A lot of fans think that Kyle Singler doesn’t have what it takes to start in the NBA and that Detroit needs to bring a new starting small forward in (Caron Butler is not the answer. His defense at the 3 was pretty bad last season). Singler is a quality starter, and while he may better fit as a backup on a championship team, Detroit isn’t there yet, and Singler is a fine player that can help lead to Detroit being an attractive free agent destination.


Last season, Detroit painfully played two players out of position – one (Josh Smith) for the full season, the other (Singler) for about half of the season. When players are playing out of position, there are usually a few reasons why they may not be as effective.


But how in the world do they show a picture of JJ and call him Singler????

We don't all look alike mofo lol
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SFs WE Could Use, today!

Post  Sebastian on Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:49 pm

deusXango wrote:Stan Van Gundy couldn't force Greg Monroe to sign a contract here or anywhere else! The signing of a contract was strictly the prerogative of Moose. SVG may want to trade Monroe, but getting him to agree to a trade this year is just as impossible as forcing him to sign a contract this past summer. It was only so much control SVG had before he became powerless and he's pretty much in the same situation now; don't look for Monroe to be traded or expect him to resign in Detroit next summer. If either of those happen, great, but don't hang your hat on it.

It's foolish to keep talking about trading Smith with the teams uncertain future with Monroe; that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We need a SF in the worst way! IMHO the only untouchables to meet that end are the Big 3, Augustin, Meeks, Dinwiddie, KCP, and Jennings. Gerald Green, T.J. Warren, Harrison Barnes, and Moe Harkless are the only 4 candidates I'd consider bringing in now, not later.

Monroe and Van Gundy have made their stand, let's see where it takes us; it's clearly time to sh!t or get off the pot!

DX, is right: Gerald Green, T.J Warren, Harrison Barnes, and Moe Harless, any one or two of these dudes I would like to have balling for OUR squad.

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Big Deal The Whole League Is Underrated

Post  Fennis Dembo on Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:15 pm

"I am the most underrated superstar. " Carmelo Anthony

"I am the most underrated qualifying offer guy. " Greg Monroe
"I am the most underrated formerly overpaid bench scrub." Charlie Villanueva
"I am the most underrated short dude. " Will Bynum
"I am the most underrated Swedish guy." Jonas Jerebko
"I am the most underrated point guard that gained twenty pounds." Greg Jennings
"I am the most underrated injured second round draft choice." Spencer Dinwiddie

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Not mincing words & Vegas

Post  Sparma on Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:49 pm

Monroe via Freep: “It wasn’t rumors, it was all lies,” he said of things leaked about him over the summer. “Because I know what really went on, I’m not worried about it. … I know the truth."

Could be an interesting season, as he's asked about his status from city to city.  I usually don't buy into talk about distractions, but this could be the real deal.

btw, Merc, Vegas seems to be with you, putting the over/ under at 36.5. I so wanted not be be overly optimistic again this year, but maybe my 38 prediction will put me there.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:41 pm

[quote="Oracle"]Well, SVG says he'll play 9-10 deep in the preseason, and that move means JJ will get what looks like an extended look!

Bynum's new diet didn't protect him from getting a hamstring injury. The hammy will limit him and that's not good news(except to Don Smile ), because he's a true change of pace from the other two skinny guards.

Oracle I would never get happy over someone's misfortune especially when a injury puts a basketball player out of action.

Oracle you should be very excited about the Pistons new addition DJ Augustin. I have always liked the way he plays the game. And a bonus for you should be that he was previously coached for two seasons by your beloved coach, Larry Brown. What Brown has done very well in the past is to get rookie point guards up to speed quickly forcing them to play the right way to earn playing time. He did that with DJ (Charlotte) and I am sure this new Piston would tell the world that Larry Brown was a tough coach to play for but once Brown stopped coaching him, I am sure that he looked back and appreciated the fact that Brown made him into a better player. Also, DJ was lucky to play under Tom Thibodeau (Chicago) for one season. Now Augustin gets to play for SVG. How lucky can you get. On the other hand, Brandon Jennings never has played for a defensive minded coach. He is way behind DJ when it comes to playing defense. I would be surprised if Augustin is not the starter when the regular season begins only because Jennings is so far behind. Jennings is a very talented player who wants to become an All Star. This is going to be a very interesting season to find which of the returning Pistons can transform themselves into good two way players.

It appears that Jerebco is on his way to his old self. If Stan The Man says a player is in outstanding physical condition then that means he is in incredible shape mentally and physically. I am so happy that Jonas is going to get a fair shot this year. He played his butt off for the last half of last season but will thrive under Van Gundy because Stan is emotionally involved in each game.

Everything seems to be changing in a positive way now that we actually a a staff that knows what in hell they are doing.

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JJ, Bynum & Seb

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:02 pm

Well, SVG says he'll play 9-10 deep in the preseason, and that move means JJ will get what looks like an extended look!

Bynum's new diet didn't protect him from getting a hamstring injury. The hammy will limit him and that's not good news(except to Don Smile ), because he's a true change of pace from the other two skinny guards.

Since Seb asked, here is the win status for reference.


Member

Wins

Average

41.5

Lemonpen

49

Stones

45

Std Dev

4.3169855

Oracle

44

Wise

44

Median

42.5

Cool Breeze

44

Phil1980boy

44

DX

41

Fennis

41

Sparma

38

Murph

38

Merc

36

Sebastian

34
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Pick 1 from column "A" and 1 from column "B"

Post  deusXango on Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:05 pm

Oracle wrote:
deusXango wrote:I'm not a blind bandwagon rider, ...Column A  

Sorry DX, you're as blind as a bat!



How in the world can you make this statement if you can see?

"Aaron Gray. Hasheem Thabeet. Both lumbering behemoths with no actual basketball skills."Column B - DX

ThaBeet is a skinny rail thin clown, hardly the lumbering Jethro/Sasquatch that Gray is... Yikes!!!

Finding their bball skills is equivalent to trying to register a fart on a earthquake detection machine, so you're right there!

Oracle, you'd make a heck of an editor.....for Bleacher Report! lol
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This is why Seb's win total is too low...

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:06 pm

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2014/10/1/6875973/pistons-preview-nba-andre-drummond-van-gundy wrote:The interior should be the Pistons' strength with Drummond growing into stardom under the tutelage of Van Gundy (similar to Dwight Howard before him), Greg Monroe as an offensive lynchpin and Josh Smith finishing on the break, passing out of the high post and defending the interior (and not doing all that bad stuff he's known to do).


This was a strength last year as the Pistons finished first in points in the paint in the NBA despite having approximately zero threats on the perimeter to occupy defenders. Drummond isn't polished offensively but will hoover up all the rebounds and dunk them into oblivion. Monroe and Smith both regressed offensively and both should see an uptick in production as they are put in more sensible lineups.


The Pistons should also be shockingly effective from 3-point range. The team finished second-to-last in 3-point shooting last season but that was because the majority of those 3s were being taken by Brandon Jennings and Smith. While both are still on the team, Van Gundy used his first offseason to sign a bevy of legitimate 3-point threats in Jodie Meeks, DJ Augustin, Caron Butler and Cartier Martin. The team could go from near the bottom of the 3-point standings to in the upper third of the NBA.


Dominating the paint and shooting effectively from 3 point land is a prescription for getting into the playoffs, and frankly being a tough out when you get there... Why?

Because a team built like this is a team designed to beat you in the half court that playoffs eventually devolve into!
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DX: Blind as a bat?

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:48 pm

deusXango wrote:I'm not a blind bandwagon rider, ...  

Sorry DX, you're as blind as a bat!



How in the world can you make this statement if you can see?

"Aaron Gray. Hasheem Thabeet. Both lumbering behemoths with no actual basketball skills." - DX

ThaBeet is a skinny rail thin clown, hardly the lumbering Jethro/Sasquatch that Gray is... Yikes!!!

Finding their bball skills is equivalent to trying to register a fart on a earthquake detection machine, so you're right there!
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Let's get real about Monroe and SVG

Post  deusXango on Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:52 am

Stan Van Gundy couldn't force Greg Monroe to sign a contract here or anywhere else! The signing of a contract was strictly the prerogative of Moose. SVG may want to trade Monroe, but getting him to agree to a trade this year is just as impossible as forcing him to sign a contract this past summer. It was only so much control SVG had before he became powerless and he's pretty much in the same situation now; don't look for Monroe to be traded or expect him to resign in Detroit next summer. If either of those happen, great, but don't hang your hat on it.

It's foolish to keep talking about trading Smith with the teams uncertain future with Monroe; that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We need a SF in the worst way! IMHO the only untouchables to meet that end are the Big 3, Augustin, Meeks, Dinwiddie, KCP, and Jennings. Gerald Green, T.J. Warren, Harrison Barnes, and Moe Harkless are the only 4 candidates I'd consider bringing in now, not later.

Monroe and Van Gundy have made their stand, let's see where it takes us; it's clearly time to sh!t or get off the pot!
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Fairness

Post  deusXango on Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:28 am

I'm not a blind bandwagon rider, but an open-minded fan who remembers what he saw; the mistakes Mo Cheeks made last year were not only numb-skull foolish, but unconscionably career damaging for some talented players. Not to put too sharp a point on things, Cheeks f@cked the team up last year!!!

A lot of starry-eyed fans may disagree with this, but Drummond was started prematurely; what had he proven going into last season other than he was deserving of more PT?

Monroe should have been our starting center, not PF! He had labored for us, without any quality help in the paint, for 3-years, but when a top tier PF was brought in and going into a contract year, he was placed in a position to fail rather than succeed.

The lack of RESPECT, unjustified PUNISHMENTS, and thoughtless, ill-advised DEPLOYMENT of Smith resulted in the negative media predictions coming true; Smith can be an asset anywhere in the NBA other than Detroit. How the f@ck can a 29 win team not benefit from bringing in a PF the caliber of Smith to play alongside (in tandem) two of the better centers in the east?

We all witnessed with disgust (team members also) the treatment Jerebko received from Cheeks last year. What were his actual trespasses to earn the coaches ire? Jerebko never got a chance to play until the season was technically over and John Loyer had taken over. I'll never forget that snub in England.

Singler was played off the bench or as our starting SG, never was he started at SF his natural position; there's really no baseline info to prove he can't be successful as a starting SF, but I raise a brow when I hear how "great" he is based on his performance as a SG.

Datome never hurt the team with his play in the brief opportunities he was given, he just didn't make shots as expected; who expected him to play as little as he did coming in with the credentials he did? Am I wrong to want to see him compete against the NBA's best for extended time and see what his numbers and consistency would be like under game conditions?

What I saw was the Big 3 that were assembled for us badly deployed, the unsettled SF slot (after Prince was gone it should have been open competition) went unaddressed, and our shooters never had a chance to develop because the spotlight was shined on the ball-hogging scorers, i.e. Jennings, Stuckey, and Bynum; those players couldn't carry a team to the top nor should they have been looked upon with the other talent available. The roster is still out of balance and there's a log jam where it shouldn't be.
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The Timberwolves ...

Post  Sebastian on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:53 am

Pistons Pals: Did any of you happen to see the Timberwolves team scrimmage on NBATV, last night?

Now, first off I don't think the Timberwolves are going to hoist the Larry O'Brien trophy in June, but damn that team is loaded with talent. From Andrew Wiggins, Thaddeus Young, Corey Brewer, Ricki Rubio, Kevin Martin, to Trace Budinger, to Big Pic,, to Anthony Bennett, Jack Levin, Mo Williams, the dude from Louisville: Deng, Muhammad has a new perspective. Hell, Tariaf, Hummell and J.J. Berea, know how to play this game.

I mean, Flip has a very, very talented roster. There has got to be some of those dudes that WE could use.

I would love to have Thad Young as OUR starting small forward. SVG needs to demonstrate that he can execute a deal. Get Flip on the phone and see, if he would be willing to part with Thad Young and maybe Glen Robinson's son for Moose and Tony Mitchell.  Do something SVG. Damn it!

And by the way, if any of you did see the aforementioned broadcast, if you are like me I really enjoyed the dialogue between Greg Anthony and OUR Legend Zeke. Why in the hell is Zeke not the GM/Head Coach of OUR Pistons? The interviews that the two conducted with the Timberwolves was great.

Zeke said one thing that I am concerned with about SVG as the GM of OUR roster. Zeke made a comment that a NBA team, the members of roster, the organization, must be involved in the community. The team must be connected to the community.

Folks can talk all the sh!t that they want to about Joe, Stuckey, Charlie V., hell even Ben. G., but under Joe's administration players were involved in the Detroit community. Will SVG have the same dedication? Remember: SVG doesn't like cold weather.

Zeke never directed this particular comment to anyone.
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Sebastian

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Gimme some sound reasoning, not bias opinion

Post  deusXango on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:31 am

Aaron Gray. Hasheem Thabeet. Both lumbering behemoths with no actual basketball skills.

Would SVG be able to positively motivate Aundray Blatche? Hasn't he shown that he's grown up? He'd be hellafied as a backup big man for us and cheap too. Why is he in China and we're preparing to go to war with Gray and/or Thabeet?
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deusXango

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Re: FORUM

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