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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:31 pm

Oracle wrote:SVG has a clear vision, and I hope we keep all of our bigs!

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/07/stan_van_gundy_jodie_meeks_vs.html wrote:Van Gundy made it clear that Meeks, with his perimeter shooting and athleticism, was acquired as a complement to the jumbo-sized Pistons trio of Andre Drummond, Josh Smith and Monroe, calling him a "perfect fit."

"We're going to build around our front line," Van Gundy said. "I think with Andre, Greg and Josh, that's the strength of our team. And so you want to put around them is guys that help them. That, to me, is more important than how good that guy is on his own -- and I think Jodie is a very good player -- but the big thing is he helps them be very good."


While we're all talking about Josh vs Monroe, SVG sees, smartly, that the trio is a super strength of this club... if used right, and that means that to win, sacrifices will have to be made, but if made, the sky is truly the limit!

As Stones pointed out, the excitement we all felt after Joe put that team together was real, but needed refinement, and SVG the coach is ready, willing and able to do what's needed!

Now with the addition of shooters, we really have the ingredients to make a run, a deep run if Drummond matures on defense and FT shooting, and Monroe gets most of his minutes as center, where his defense is a lot better!

One last thing. KCP vs Meeks for the starting position is a KCP win easily! Unfortunately you have to follow the money(and experience), and IMO, no matter what KCP does, Meeks will start!

Based on Pope's play in the summer league I think Stan will figure out real quick that he needs perimeter defenders on the floor. Meeks is a better defender than he was two years ago and for sure is light years ahead of either Jennings or Bynum. But Pope is becoming a good two way player. I know you are with me on the idea of making KCP our starting point guard. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make an entry pass and move without the ball. He could be a good pick and roll point guard and now has a good mid range game. And it would be cool to have him match up on defense with opposing point guards. I can't imagine that our new coach will go into training camp with both Jennings and Bynum but I doubt there is any team in the league that would want either player. Perhaps Detroit could trade Bynum and throw in come cash. Nobody wants Jennings contract or his style of play.

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I like the way SVG is thinking...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:44 pm

SVG has a clear vision, and I hope we keep all of our bigs!

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/07/stan_van_gundy_jodie_meeks_vs.html wrote:Van Gundy made it clear that Meeks, with his perimeter shooting and athleticism, was acquired as a complement to the jumbo-sized Pistons trio of Andre Drummond, Josh Smith and Monroe, calling him a "perfect fit."

"We're going to build around our front line," Van Gundy said. "I think with Andre, Greg and Josh, that's the strength of our team. And so you want to put around them is guys that help them. That, to me, is more important than how good that guy is on his own -- and I think Jodie is a very good player -- but the big thing is he helps them be very good."


While we're all talking about Josh vs Monroe, SVG sees, smartly, that the trio is a super strength of this club... if used right, and that means that to win, sacrifices will have to be made, but if made, the sky is truly the limit!

As Stones pointed out, the excitement we all felt after Joe put that team together was real, but needed refinement, and SVG the coach is ready, willing and able to do what's needed!

Now with the addition of shooters, we really have the ingredients to make a run, a deep run if Drummond matures on defense and FT shooting, and Monroe gets most of his minutes as center, where his defense is a lot better!

One last thing. KCP vs Meeks for the starting position is a KCP win easily! Unfortunately you have to follow the money(and experience), and IMO, no matter what KCP does, Meeks will start!
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Also...

Post  Go Stones! on Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:55 pm

Oracle wrote:@Don & Wise: I don't get some of the inconsistency here, and I'm not quite sure what Wise means about letting starters slide, but punish role players more, but here's the bottom line!

Following Wise's advice, we should just keep playing players that don't do what we need, and that's the solution?

How about not playing them for stretches, and if that isn't working... trade their asses ASAP!

You guys act like there two ways to handle this, and there isn't!

If they had been doing that with Monroe for his full rookie contract, we wouldn't be having this discussion! He would have either done what we need or SVG wouldn't be caring about offers, we'd be hoping he got a good one so we could do the S&T!

What you're saying is that in a perfect world every athlete will do the right thing right out of the box, and NONE of the 2004 bunch except prince did that, that's how we got them in the first place, somebody gave up on their asses being able to do the right thing!

@Stones - I totally agree! There are two things that can make changes in players! Get traded or get a coach that brings out their best! IMO, SVG has all of the capabilities as a coach to do that with this team, and he has the power to dump their asses as the GM... beautiful!!!

BTW, you can get a lot out of a team if you can get 2-3 starters fully on board, the rest of the team will generally fall in line and the team will become self enforcing! It's a dynamic effect, but once it happens chemistry builds quickly!

I agree...also, if you have some gunners as bench players they can easily keep the starters sharp and accountable. I believe this is the reason he is getting a few of the players he has. Attitude, accountability, proper leadership and winning confidence are all necessary to build a championship team.
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The Bar

Post  WTF on Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:12 am

Somewhere along the way the bar was lowered because teams GM's were unwilling to admit their mistakes in drafting players and acquiring players that had questionable talents.  These GM's bought into the hype machine of ESPN and others that the next MJ, Kobe, or whomever was just a draft pick away and it's sad.  They're doing it now with Wiggins and Parker and a few others players being picked from the vine before their time, don't get me wrong both players could go on to become all stars but they also have just as much chance as ending up as bust.   The Bar needs to be put back in place it can't continue to be about just the money because sooner or later fans are going to stop buying the bullsh!t the NBA is selling.
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Pie in the sky

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:57 am

Go Stones! wrote:
Step away from the ledge...away from the ledge.  Let's sit back and make it through until we hear what is up with Monroe (who I believe is going to get a max contract from one of these teams wanting Bosh, Lebron or Melo...let the dominoes start falling).  

Stones, what I hear you saying is that Monroe is equal to Bosh, LeBron, and Melo on a teams payroll (if not talent wise) and GM's around the league will loose their minds and give David Falk what he wants. A cautionary word about listening to David Falk...."Roy Hibbert!" Roy was an All-Star too.

This is not about silver linings but, rose colored glasses; Lance Stephenson has been mentioned more than Monroe as a FA to be signed....as far as max contracts go Greg has too much to prove and a very long way to go in his games overall improvement. Look at what Drummond accomplished in one year and look at where KCP and Siva seem to be headed in their second year (I know it's summer league but, they've manned up!) and then look at where Monroe is now, after four years....those three young men have had to deal with uncertain coaching changes also but, it's not affected their work ethic and dedication to the game.
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Don, Wise, Stones

Post  WTF on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:23 am

Oracle wrote:@Don & Wise: I don't get some of the inconsistency here, and I'm not quite sure what Wise means about letting starters slide, but punish role players more, but here's the bottom line!

Following Wise's advice, we should just keep playing players that don't do what we need, and that's the solution? That's not what I said, but we all know Moose been sliding since he got here

How about not playing them for stretches, and if that isn't working... trade their asses ASAP! Agreed! Which is why I've always been for trading Moose

You guys act like there two ways to handle this, and there isn't! No just 2 types of players those that care and those that don't

If they had been doing that with Monroe for his full rookie contract, we wouldn't be having this discussion! He would have either done what we need or SVG wouldn't be caring about offers, we'd be hoping he got a good one so we could do the S&T!

What you're saying is that in a perfect world every athlete will do the right thing right out of the box, and NONE of the 2004 bunch except prince did that, that's how we got them in the first place, somebody gave up on their asses being able to do the right thing! You know that this comment proves a lot of the luck theory about Joe. Sorry but Moose isn't cut from the same cloth of those players never have been and never will be!

@Stones - I totally agree! There are two things that can make changes in players! Get traded or get a coach that brings out their best! IMO, SVG has all of the capabilities as a coach to do that with this team, and he has the power to dump their asses as the GM... beautiful!!!

BTW, you can get a lot out of a team if you can get 2-3 starters fully on board, the rest of the team will generally fall in line and the team will become self enforcing! It's a dynamic effect, but once it happens chemistry builds quickly!

I'm not disagreeing with you and Stone I'm just telling you that the method doesn't work on every player and that Moose is one of those players. Lets forget Moose physical and athletic limitation for a moment. More times than not I'm bashing Moose on attitude and work ethics and often call him an career underachiever. There are things that are blatantly obvious that speaks to what kind of character he has. Moose wouldn't care if he was traded because he'll have a 12 million a year deal the next 5 seasons no matter where he plays, Moose also know that if he keeps the same stats throughout those 5 season some idiot will offer him another deal maybe one even better.

Unfortunately Oracle star players do get to slide and those highly coveted players like Carmelo, because we love his offensive game so much often he gets a pass on his below average defense. In the case of Moose many give him a pass based on potential far too risky IMO when offering up max deals to players like this you at least know what you're getting out of Carmelo. In my perfect world Moose comes off the bench and he signs a contract of 4 years 40 million because that is close to his actual worth and not what the market says he's worth because some other ass are being over paid.
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DX

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:11 am

Can't leave without saying that those last two posts were right on target!

As much as I like Monroe and want him to stay, I know he isn't worth more than Josh Smith money... yet!

Unfortunately, what we think probably couldn't keep Joe in donuts for 5 minutes  lol
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Don, Wise, Stones

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:07 am

@Don & Wise: I don't get some of the inconsistency here, and I'm not quite sure what Wise means about letting starters slide, but punish role players more, but here's the bottom line!

Following Wise's advice, we should just keep playing players that don't do what we need, and that's the solution?

How about not playing them for stretches, and if that isn't working... trade their asses ASAP!

You guys act like there two ways to handle this, and there isn't!

If they had been doing that with Monroe for his full rookie contract, we wouldn't be having this discussion! He would have either done what we need or SVG wouldn't be caring about offers, we'd be hoping he got a good one so we could do the S&T!

What you're saying is that in a perfect world every athlete will do the right thing right out of the box, and NONE of the 2004 bunch except prince did that, that's how we got them in the first place, somebody gave up on their asses being able to do the right thing!

@Stones - I totally agree! There are two things that can make changes in players! Get traded or get a coach that brings out their best! IMO, SVG has all of the capabilities as a coach to do that with this team, and he has the power to dump their asses as the GM... beautiful!!!

BTW, you can get a lot out of a team if you can get 2-3 starters fully on board, the rest of the team will generally fall in line and the team will become self enforcing! It's a dynamic effect, but once it happens chemistry builds quickly!
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Silver Lining?

Post  Go Stones! on Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:56 am

Many an NBA player has been rejuvenated by Spurs' coach Popavich. I just wonder if getting a decent head coach may do the same in Detroit. Let's wait and see before we get too excited about the moves that are, and are not, being made. The SVG experiment may be a huge flop, or it may make Gores appear extremely brilliant!

I REALLY hope that SVG is at least better than Cheeks. The interim alone made huge strides...but was not going to fix all of them. I'm guessing that there was an attitude issue in the locker room.

Do you remember how pumped we were last summer with the signing and trades we had going? Many of the talking heads had us making the playoffs. I bet SVG is not wanting to change a whole lot and add some solid bench players (possibly for future trade bait...Dumars did that early in his admin career) to support and challenge the starters in practice.

Step away from the ledge...away from the ledge. Let's sit back and make it through until we hear what is up with Monroe (who I believe is going to get a max contract from one of these teams wanting Bosh, Lebron or Melo...let the dominoes start falling).
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:33 am

DX, I'm inclined to agree with you on Monroe's value... the other side of the coin says who are we going to attract with the extra cap dollars?... make no mistake that SVG is thinking of G.M. as an asset that other teams would be interested in... are we better off letting him walk or finding out what a signed contract will bring back?
I hate the fit as a PF... without a stretch game or defense he's more of a liability... but other teams may view him as a cornerstone center worth dolling out serious talent in return.
Sure he will improve his range as a shooter and we could improve our perimeter defense by dumping Jennings but Monroe will always be a target as a poor defender (when I say poor I mean god awful)... so in the end we have to think of Greg as a stepping stone to better pieces to the puzzle.
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Why is SVG in the Summer League stands...

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 am

....if not to evaluate talent? Peyton Siva has shown to be the smartest PG on the team and I'm not talking about summer league but, the Detroit Pistons. If Van Gundy and crew has been viewing game film from last year they know from the eye test that Siva is more in command of the offense than Jennings and Bynum, and plays harder nosed defense....and we're talking backup PG making pennies, if he makes the team! They've witnessed ball-hogging, selfish play, from shot happy PG's who ignored the value of team play but, up close and personal SVG has seen how Siva stacked up against lottery and first round prospects at PG....I don't think he'll look a gift horse in the mouth and pass on this young man; too valuable a commodity.
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The market be damned!!!

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:01 am

I keep reading the veiled excuse that the market value of other players justify signing Moose to a max contract to which I say bullsh!t....Moose is not a max player and the only one pushing that sh!t really is his agent. Greed does not a basketball player make. I've heard the talk about Monroe's passing abilities but, I've yet to see Magic Johnson type passing from this slug....his inside post game is what, beyond peer? The second coming of Olajuwon? More bullsh!t. What I'm saying people is any player coming off his rookie contract and signing a max deal should be clearly on his way to the HOF, which I don't see in Monroe's future. Not likely, no way, no how. If he played for 25-years, 16/9 wouldn't get him into the HOF! Keep in mind these numbers were for a team that was on a downward spiral since he signed that rookie contract and if he was worth a damn he would have dominated.

These bitch style, undercover, threats are a big turnoff....I don't care if he said this or that, or it was negative media generated, popularity shouldn't back us into a corner and force the franchise to make a self-destructive decision; loading up on players to be traded later is bullsh!t also because, if they could be traded so easily, why not now? All we really need is a top tier SF.....Moose and Jennings can't bring us a top tier SF? If that's the case, they're value is  over rated.

Monroe is not the best center on the team (regardless of Drummonds raw limitations) and as time goes on, the gap will widen, going in Drummond's favor. Monroe is not the best PF on the team and SVG can/will get more out of Smith over the next three years than he can/will get from Monroe at that position. We'll get a young stud to play PF in the next three years (inside and outside game) and he won't command a max deal either. Neither Drummond or Smith need to be hidden on defense and Monroe hasn't displayed the talent to be looked upon as a #1 or #2 scoring option....what would we be paying max money for? Oh, I get it, pay Monroe max money to make an end run on justifying dumping Smith. That's bitch style not SVG style.

Monroe is not better than Gortat, just younger....we're in a position to pay for youth alone? As a player Monroe is not in the same class as Hayward, just bigger. Anyone who offers the Moose a max contract but doesn't want to agree to a sign & trade worthy of a max deal, should be allowed to keep his ass. I know that's going to bring fire from the anti-DX crowd but, it's better they hamstring their franchise than we further hamstringing ours....we don't have it like that, plus when Moose's lazy ass starts super-sucking, we'll put the signing decision on SVG and Gores for hiring him, and totally forget that we called for that move.

High school, AAU, college, and four years deep into the NBA and still can't make FT's? Haven't developed an outside or even mid-range shot? This has nothing to do with his slow feet or lack of defense but, it's why I join my brothers who say Moose's ass is lazy....you can work on these things and improve on them in a gym all by yourself!!! I'm really interested to see who jumps out there with their wallet open and offers Monroe a max contract, or see if he has the balls to sign a qualifying offer, like has been threatened. It'll be hilarious if he signs a qualifying offer and becomes an UFA next year and his top offer on the market is $10 million per year, because that's what the market is calling for.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:10 am

Oracle wrote:Let's get real!

If you're a coach, you're given players, and if you want to win, you need your best players in the best condition! So if they aren't, you guys would do what? Not demand that they get in shape? WTF planet are you on  lol 

You need to ask yourself why that wasn't a problem under LB... why?

Then maybe you'll understand why it was a problem under these last few!
Oracle could it be that the players that Brown coached would have performed extremely well without a coach? The answer is YES! Billups was the leader. He was the most important person on the team relating to getting other players to be ready to perform. There was no Rodman on that team but you might say that Brown did temper Rasheed's explosive personality. But Billups created the culture and  Zeke did it in the Bad Boy era. As Zeke says you have to know how to play the game and for sure Jennings and Bynum are inept point guards regardless of the kind of shape they are in. Maybe Brown could teach both how to play defense but for them to execute doing it in games might take 10 years. As a NBA coach you need to have players who are coachable and have some clue as to the fundamentals of playing the game. And you need at least one cool leader to form the right chemistry. Joe Dumars selected the worst players possible and put them together as his team without a player leader.

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That Theory Only Applies To Role Players and Rookies, Moose Is A Premature Diva

Post  WTF on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:09 am

Oracle wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:Let's get real!

If you're a coach, you're given players, and if you want to win, you need your best players in the best condition! So if they aren't, you guys would do what? Not demand that they get in shape? WTF planet are you on  lol 

You need to ask yourself why that wasn't a problem under LB... why?

Then maybe you'll understand why it was a problem under these last few!

Oracle, "Na-Nu Na-Nu" Earthling just want to say that there are players that will simply be what they're regardless of the coach.  We see players wasting potential all the time no matter how good a coach is they can't always get through to players especially those player deemed Diva's.  SVG and D-Ho eventually bumped heads, The Wallace's eventually turned on LB and Flip as well.  

Yes coaching can make a difference but I can't see SVG getting the results he want out of Moose.  Again just my opinion  tb 

When I played back in H.S I we competed as players amongst team mate in practice and weight room to be the fastest, strongest, biggest.  We really didn't need coaching for that everything was always a competition no matter what it was.  Players today are spoiled and don't thrive because the bar is set low, winning isn't important like it use to be.  Perhaps both me and Don are simply Old School in our thinking.

Coaching makes all the difference!

I asked you to look at why, and I guess you either didn't or don't see why this was a physical impossibility under LB or any other good to great coach!

Listen to this carefully!!!

If you aren't in shape, if you can't make plays, you don't play!!!

End of story!

Larry Brown enforced that, Pop enforces that! We haven't had a coach with the balls to do that even though Lil Larry caught holy hell for doing it!

I hope SVG has the balls to do that, because if you don't you won't get any behavior change! Oracle do you honestly think SVG would give Moose 12 million a season and then sit his ass on the bench? No it won't happen, and if he did do you really think Moose would give a ****? No he wouldn't and SVG would like Joe Dumars all over again.  I honestly think SVG already now this but has to keep up all the praise to keep his value up

That's why I wanted Knight to get has butt sat down when the turnovers kept being dumb! Players will learn if there is pain for screwing up!

Monroe hasn't felt that pain often enough, and btw, I'm rather on the fence that he should be paid more than Josh, he isn't that good, but that's the stinking market right now!

SVG can take that approach but I don't think it'll change Moose attitude or his effort.  Just me but his reaction to Josh rather he liked it coming from Josh or not should have been to prove Josh wrong, but he continue to half ass it and remain inconsistent throughout the season then attack Josh at season end instead of recognizing Josh was correct.  SVG will likely be force to trade him before Moose actually conform.

Also to answer you question, LB never had lazy ass players he had players that required some fine tuning on their fundamentals. The players LB got wasn't lazy under Rick, and had an identity of being hard workers so this is why LB had success with players


Last edited by WISEFAN on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Monroe

Post  Sparma on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:02 am

DBB leads with the 60/5 headline. He will not do that with the Pistons. No one knows for sure which is when it's interesting to venture a prediction to see how rival hypotheses fare. Granted DBB becomes more nuanced in the body of the piece.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:54 pm

Oracle wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:Let's get real!

If you're a coach, you're given players, and if you want to win, you need your best players in the best condition! So if they aren't, you guys would do what? Not demand that they get in shape? WTF planet are you on  lol 

You need to ask yourself why that wasn't a problem under LB... why?

Then maybe you'll understand why it was a problem under these last few!

Oracle, "Na-Nu Na-Nu" Earthling just want to say that there are players that will simply be what they're regardless of the coach.  We see players wasting potential all the time no matter how good a coach is they can't always get through to players especially those player deemed Diva's.  SVG and D-Ho eventually bumped heads, The Wallace's eventually turned on LB and Flip as well.  

Yes coaching can make a difference but I can't see SVG getting the results he want out of Moose.  Again just my opinion  tb 

When I played back in H.S I we competed as players amongst team mate in practice and weight room to be the fastest, strongest, biggest.  We really didn't need coaching for that everything was always a competition no matter what it was.  Players today are spoiled and don't thrive because the bar is set low, winning isn't important like it use to be.  Perhaps both me and Don are simply Old School in our thinking.

Coaching makes all the difference!

I asked you to look at why, and I guess you either didn't or don't see why this was a physical impossibility under LB or any other good to great coach!

Listen to this carefully!!!

If you aren't in shape, if you can't make plays, you don't play!!!

End of story!

Larry Brown enforced that, Pop enforces that! We haven't had a coach with the balls to do that even though Lil Larry caught holy hell for doing it!

I hope SVG has the balls to do that, because if you don't you won't get any behavior change!

That's why I wanted Knight to get has butt sat down when the turnovers kept being dumb! Players will learn if there is pain for screwing up!

Monroe hasn't felt that pain often enough, and btw, I'm rather on the fence that he should be paid more than Josh, he isn't that good, but that's the stinking market right now!
Oracle do you believe that Larry Brown could have changed Charlie V's look as he jogged back on defense looking like he had a turd in his pants? I never actually saw where Charlie ran the court full speed to get back on defense? Maybe he has a permanent hamstring issue. If so then maybe Larry could have given Charlie a rub down before the games. I wonder if Joe Dumars ever watched Charlie run the court when he was a Buck. How could anyone miss that but Dumars? 

I just thought of something Oracle. Larry Brown did bench Memo in favor of Williamson perhaps because Memo was slow getting back on defense. Maybe you have something after all. And could it be that Larry Brown would have benched Monroe for months at a time after seeing how pathetic Monroe approached playing defense. All of Monroe's coaches so far have benched Monroe in crunch time but never punished him for lazy play. I just don't see the spark in Greg Monroe that others see. I am hoping like hell in the end we will see a sign and trade bringing in at least one stud player or a high draft choice. Given that this summer is a huge time for Greg Monroe but he didn't play effectively this past season should cause SVG to ponder what he will do. Maybe SVG has a plan to hide Monroe but my worry is that Monroe is not a good end of game player and Smith also has had 4th quarter issues throughout his career. Neither can shoot free throws well. So could it be that once again our management people have over estimated the talent on this club? I think that is the case for sure. When it gets down to it, we don't have winning type big men yet. Maybe they can turn into winners but do they have the work ethic to make that happen?

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Prediction

Post  WTF on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:39 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Monroe signing with the Pistons for five years and $60 mil ain't going to happen.  He'd go for unrestricted free agency next year before doing that.  I have no problem believing the Pistons made that offer [as discussed at DBB and elsewhere], but they'll need to sweeten the pot, a lot, for Monroe to sign long term here. - You can't rely on those reports! The 60M may be true, but it could also be for 4 years, which puts it close to max money, the reports aren't specific on the years!

A semi-forced, but solid, trade (maybe even into the coming season) still seems like the most likely outcome, with both sides using what leverage they have to get there.  The options are drying up though.  I let myself get convinced that Miami was a decent guess, but with McRoberts going there, that sounds out.  Washington's out, with Gortat signing.  Portland's far more unlikely, after the Kamen signing. - Not likely! He's either in or he's out, I don't believe there will be anything else unless he gets a max offer and signs it, THEN we may look to move him during the season or after the season depending on how it's going. Forced really doesn't apply, IMO, when dealing with a big who holds his value.

The national media are missing out on a genuine drama in the making with all their focus on LeBron and Melo.

Having said all of that, nobody knows for sure how this falls out! I'd like to keep Monroe, but I can easily move on!

When Wise & Don go after a player like a dog with a bone, I've learned that there may be something there. It's not like I don't know where the bodies are buried in Monroe's game, but they don't see him getting much better, and I am hopeful he may.

We'l have to wait and see  Shocked

If the 5yr 60 million is true the SVG shouldn't deviate from it. Honestly it's more than what I think his ass is worth.  facepalm 

Sparma, I haven't totally given up on the possibility of a trade with the Blazers I think the Kaman signing was done because Lopez may have to be offered up in a trade with Batum to get Moose in a sign and trade. I may be wrong but I'm still hopeful.  hehe 

Oracle I said 2 seasons ago I think Moose have peaked already. He's getting by on talent right now but in order for him to progress further it's going to take him having all those things me and Don question (work ethic and desire) IMO he don't have the heart and Josh proved as much with his reaction to Josh's criticism about his effort and with the swap he took at Josh after the season ended.
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Totally agree!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:38 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:As KCP misses the winning 3 point shot!

However, we lost this game because we're really missing Siva!

It didn't show up so much the last game, but it was evident all game long tonight!

KCP does well as a PG, but Siva is a lot better at running and settling the team down when needed! Lots of spells of freelancing and jacking up shots!

Yes they miss Siva badly and I thought KCP took too many bad shots even though he had 26 point it wasn't in the flow of the offense.

KCP can play PG in a pinch, and he may even get better at it if he had to, but his defiencies as a PG were on display tonight!

Even so, they came awfully close to winning!
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Here's what you're not getting...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:36 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:Let's get real!

If you're a coach, you're given players, and if you want to win, you need your best players in the best condition! So if they aren't, you guys would do what? Not demand that they get in shape? WTF planet are you on  lol 

You need to ask yourself why that wasn't a problem under LB... why?

Then maybe you'll understand why it was a problem under these last few!

Oracle, "Na-Nu Na-Nu" Earthling just want to say that there are players that will simply be what they're regardless of the coach.  We see players wasting potential all the time no matter how good a coach is they can't always get through to players especially those player deemed Diva's.  SVG and D-Ho eventually bumped heads, The Wallace's eventually turned on LB and Flip as well.  

Yes coaching can make a difference but I can't see SVG getting the results he want out of Moose.  Again just my opinion  tb 

When I played back in H.S I we competed as players amongst team mate in practice and weight room to be the fastest, strongest, biggest.  We really didn't need coaching for that everything was always a competition no matter what it was.  Players today are spoiled and don't thrive because the bar is set low, winning isn't important like it use to be.  Perhaps both me and Don are simply Old School in our thinking.

Coaching makes all the difference!

I asked you to look at why, and I guess you either didn't or don't see why this was a physical impossibility under LB or any other good to great coach!

Listen to this carefully!!!

If you aren't in shape, if you can't make plays, you don't play!!!

End of story!

Larry Brown enforced that, Pop enforces that! We haven't had a coach with the balls to do that even though Lil Larry caught holy hell for doing it!

I hope SVG has the balls to do that, because if you don't you won't get any behavior change!

That's why I wanted Knight to get has butt sat down when the turnovers kept being dumb! Players will learn if there is pain for screwing up!

Monroe hasn't felt that pain often enough, and btw, I'm rather on the fence that he should be paid more than Josh, he isn't that good, but that's the stinking market right now!
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Pistons lose..

Post  WTF on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Oracle wrote:As KCP misses the winning 3 point shot!

However, we lost this game because we're really missing Siva!

It didn't show up so much the last game, but it was evident all game long tonight!

KCP does well as a PG, but Siva is a lot better at running and settling the team down when needed! Lots of spells of freelancing and jacking up shots!

Yes they miss Siva badly and I thought KCP took too many bad shots even though he had 26 point it wasn't in the flow of the offense.
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RE: Ok coach Wise & Don, earth is calling, LOL

Post  WTF on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:13 pm

Oracle wrote:Let's get real!

If you're a coach, you're given players, and if you want to win, you need your best players in the best condition! So if they aren't, you guys would do what? Not demand that they get in shape? WTF planet are you on  lol 

You need to ask yourself why that wasn't a problem under LB... why?

Then maybe you'll understand why it was a problem under these last few!

Oracle, "Na-Nu Na-Nu" Earthling just want to say that there are players that will simply be what they're regardless of the coach. We see players wasting potential all the time no matter how good a coach is they can't always get through to players especially those player deemed Diva's. SVG and D-Ho eventually bumped heads, The Wallace's eventually turned on LB and Flip as well.

Yes coaching can make a difference but I can't see SVG getting the results he want out of Moose. Again just my opinion  tb 

When I played back in H.S I we competed as players amongst team mate in practice and weight room to be the fastest, strongest, biggest. We really didn't need coaching for that everything was always a competition no matter what it was. Players today are spoiled and don't thrive because the bar is set low, winning isn't important like it use to be. Perhaps both me and Don are simply Old School in our thinking.
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Pistons lose..

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:35 pm

As KCP misses the winning 3 point shot!

However, we lost this game because we're really missing Siva!

It didn't show up so much the last game, but it was evident all game long tonight!

KCP does well as a PG, but Siva is a lot better at running and settling the team down when needed! Lots of spells of freelancing and jacking up shots!
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Prediction

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:30 pm

Sparma wrote:Monroe signing with the Pistons for five years and $60 mil ain't going to happen.  He'd go for unrestricted free agency next year before doing that.  I have no problem believing the Pistons made that offer [as discussed at DBB and elsewhere], but they'll need to sweeten the pot, a lot, for Monroe to sign long term here. - You can't rely on those reports! The 60M may be true, but it could also be for 4 years, which puts it close to max money, the reports aren't specific on the years!

A semi-forced, but solid, trade (maybe even into the coming season) still seems like the most likely outcome, with both sides using what leverage they have to get there.  The options are drying up though.  I let myself get convinced that Miami was a decent guess, but with McRoberts going there, that sounds out.  Washington's out, with Gortat signing.  Portland's far more unlikely, after the Kamen signing. - Not likely! He's either in or he's out, I don't believe there will be anything else unless he gets a max offer and signs it, THEN we may look to move him during the season or after the season depending on how it's going. Forced really doesn't apply, IMO, when dealing with a big who holds his value.

The national media are missing out on a genuine drama in the making with all their focus on LeBron and Melo.

Having said all of that, nobody knows for sure how this falls out! I'd like to keep Monroe, but I can easily move on!

When Wise & Don go after a player like a dog with a bone, I've learned that there may be something there. It's not like I don't know where the bodies are buried in Monroe's game, but they don't see him getting much better, and I am hopeful he may.

We'l have to wait and see  Shocked
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Prediction

Post  Sparma on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:11 pm

Monroe signing with the Pistons for five years and $60 mil ain't going to happen. He'd go for unrestricted free agency next year before doing that. I have no problem believing the Pistons made that offer [as discussed at DBB and elsewhere], but they'll need to sweeten the pot, a lot, for Monroe to sign long term here.

A semi-forced, but solid, trade (maybe even into the coming season) still seems like the most likely outcome, with both sides using what leverage they have to get there. The options are drying up though. I let myself get convinced that Miami was a decent guess, but with McRoberts going there, that sounds out. Washington's out, with Gortat signing. Portland's far more unlikely, after the Kamen signing.

The national media are missing out on a genuine drama in the making with all their focus on LeBron and Melo.
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The Face That Launched A Thousand Airballs -CV

Post  Fennis Dembo on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:30 pm

Great picture Oracle. LOL!  hehe 

Watching him play for five seasons should get us some kind of heavenly reward.

The topic of being in top condition came up today on this site. Remember how Charlie was criticized just about every season for being out of shape? Then he tweeted that he was getting in shape by training like a boxer, but he never got in shape for basketball. He's still doing the same dumb ass boxing training. Boxers are usually in great condition. Charlie not so much. He must fart around shadow boxing for five minutes and jumping rope for five minutes and then call it a day. He is unbelievable.

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