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You made me look

Post  Sparma on Sat May 31, 2014 8:42 pm

Yes, it may have kept us from a second championship. And it's a bad play by Sheed, but I see no Youtube evidence of Sheed yapping at an official. He just seems to want to double up (a strategy that helped making Detroit's D great that year), but then retreats and gets caught in between, a fatal mistake against Big Shot Bob. I'd managed not to look back at that play until now, Don!

cool breeze wrote:
Sparma wrote:Drummond comments as follows: “He’s definitely been a big help for me. He’s taught me a lot. My back-to-the-basket game is getting better. I’ve learned a lot of moves that before, I wasn’t doing. … I did a drop-step spin move into a layup. I haven’t done that, ever. It’s working on things like that, that get me really excited."  

The bottom line for me is that I have never trusted Rasheed Wallace. As a player he was a guy could never control his emotions and would cause his teammates to lose focus because he had to have grudge battles with the officials. As a person who loves to watch sports of all kinds, it was irritating for me to watch Rasheed perform at times. He did as he pleased not caring about his teammates. And he was yapping at the officials when Robert Horry hit that 3 point shot which cost Detroit one of their most important games in Piston history. Then there were the behavior issues he had off the court at Portland. 

Was he a good candidate for coaching? According to the young Drummond he was a big help and one cannot deny something coming from a current player. Has Rasheed changed? This is a great story if that is true. If he now wants to be a good role model for young players and can make an impact on them by telling them about the consequences of his own mistakes, then it is a shame that he has become a victim of another head coaching change. If he is the same old Sheed, then perhaps for the good of team chemistry, Van Gundy has made the correct decision. It would be great to get the real story here. In the end, Stan Van Gundy will be up against the wall trying to coach a horrible team. He must have a staff that he can trust with his life.
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Taking the broad view

Post  deusXango on Sat May 31, 2014 3:02 pm

Stan Van Gundy has gone on record with high praise for the duo of Monroe and Drummond (which with a return to sanity, is the way things should be) and I believe in the man's sincerity. Defense is the problem with those two, but that's manageable, and a solid mid-range game, which can be developed by both! As an offensive duo in the paint those two are hard to beat, but given the state of the centers in the league today, it's fair to say Monroe can defend the majority of them, it's the PF's across the league that are killers; I think SVG envisions Drummond shutting them down defensively...can work.

It's madness to bring Josh Smith off the bench at $14 million a year; he can and I think he should be traded for the necessary upgrades this teams needs; shooters and smarts are essential at this point of the Pistons development. Can we get Nik Stauskas and Zack LaVine on draft night for Smith? 2, 3, 4 teams involved in the transaction doesn't matter as long as we get smarter, more athletic, younger, and proficient with long range shooting. I've been a big Smith supporter, but it appears his days are numbered and with good cause. Next up is Brandon Jennings.

As far as a scoring PG goes, I'd put my money on Stauskas 2-3 years from now over Jennings...how long has Jennings had to perfect his craft on the pro level? On his way to averaging 7 assists a game (career high) there were games when Jennings had as many as 12 assists in the first half, and the Pistons were winning, but ended the game with 14 total assists...2 assists in the half where we got our ass kicked! He went from playing team ball in the first half to playing "me" ball in the second half and that's what he gets credit for doing under Mo Cheeks. Speaking of Cheeks, has he moved on from not being coached by Cheeks yet? In Stauskas, LaVine, and KCP we've got size, smarts, athleticism, and high percentage shooters who can defend. LaVine can play some PG also.

Somehow I expect Rasheed to return to the bench under SVG...just a feeling. What makes Loyer such a lock in this franchises efforts going forward? I hope that SVG pursues Luol Deng in free agency and Deng is reasonable in his contract demands. Am I alone in my feelings that Bynum and Billups should be buyout candidates? There's no trade value there and we could certainly use the roster spots. It's sh!t or get off the pot time for Siva, Mitchell, and Datome...they all deserve a second chance to show Van Gundy what they have, but this should be it. J.J.? What can I say?
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 31, 2014 2:54 pm

Sparma wrote:Drummond comments as follows: “He’s definitely been a big help for me. He’s taught me a lot. My back-to-the-basket game is getting better. I’ve learned a lot of moves that before, I wasn’t doing. … I did a drop-step spin move into a layup. I haven’t done that, ever. It’s working on things like that, that get me really excited."  

The bottom line for me is that I have never trusted Rasheed Wallace. As a player he was a guy could never control his emotions and would cause his teammates to lose focus because he had to have grudge battles with the officials. As a person who loves to watch sports of all kinds, it was irritating for me to watch Rasheed perform at times. He did as he pleased not caring about his teammates. And he was yapping at the officials when Robert Horry hit that 3 point shot which cost Detroit one of their most important games in Piston history. Then there were the behavior issues he had off the court at Portland. 

Was he a good candidate for coaching? According to the young Drummond he was a big help and one cannot deny something coming from a current player. Has Rasheed changed? This is a great story if that is true. If he now wants to be a good role model for young players and can make an impact on them by telling them about the consequences of his own mistakes, then it is a shame that he has become a victim of another head coaching change. If he is the same old Sheed, then perhaps for the good of team chemistry, Van Gundy has made the correct decision. It would be great to get the real story here. In the end, Stan Van Gundy will be up against the wall trying to coach a horrible team. He must have a staff that he can trust with his life.

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Trading any current Piston player or players should be an option before this draft

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 31, 2014 2:37 pm

We need to face facts. All of our current players have big defects. We can hope players like Drummond will reach their potential but we can't count on it. Even a player like Drummond with amazing athletic ability is a huge risk moving forward because Drummond is not a fundamentally sound player. He never took the time as a kid to learn the important principals of playing defense. It is next to impossible to teach players fundamentals once they enter the NBA. 

This is a very important draft. Remember when Joe Dumars selected Darko in that strong draft? Did you watch last night's game where D. Wade and C. Bosh played extremely well again? I was closer to coaching in those days and was one of most people involved with college basketball that knew Wade was a special player. Yet Joe Dumars staff picked the unknown Darko thus we have no special player today. Everyone blew that bad pick off but that pick alone killed Detroit's future. Flash forward to the present day and an equally damaging decision has been made by Piston management that will kill the Pistons future for another decade. We had a chance to draft a player like Arron Gordon. This guy is not a normal human being. He has incredible energy and hunger to win. We lost our chance to draft him because of a feeble mentally challenged management team. Notice the announcers after the game taking notice of Pat Riley. He sits in the background not taking part in the glory but few things get past Pat Riley. He is in a different league than Joe Dumars and all the people around him are in a different league than Joe Dumars staff. The only thing any of us have to celebrate over is the fact that we have Stan Van Gundy running the Pistons instead of Joe Dumars and the current owners group will not interfere as well. But this loss of a draft pick considering the current shape of this horrible basketball team is crushing for all of us. This is the last time I will mention the past because I know it irritates a lot of Joe Dumars supporters. It was never all about Joe Dumars because he is was a figure head for the most part. The people working behind the scenes who gave Joe advise are responsible for a lot of the mistakes. But then Joe should have done the proper work to avoid hiring them. All though the years I have wondered about the Pistons scouting staff and support team of Dumars. How many of those people who recommended Rodney White instead of Joe Johnson or Darko instead of several super stars were still working for the Pistons the day Dumars left the team?????

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Wise

Post  Sparma on Sat May 31, 2014 12:31 pm

If Minnesota's trading Love, I can't see them adding any sweeteners (maybe some sourerers, if that were a word). Did Young average 17.9 last year? Can't see the Lakers sending him, but they would be the ones needing to send sweeteners. Kaman's an idea, but he's pretty old to be a real catch. Don't think the trade could work, so it's a moot point.

Minnesota will work hard to trade Love this summer if they have any sense, given his threat to leave, and including Monroe in some kind of three way deal makes sense. Maybe one with Golden State would be easier to arrange. Isn't that one of the teams Love said he wanted?

All that said, I do think that Van Gundy's sincere in his high praise for Monroe, so good chance we'll watch the Monroe - Drummond duo play out. Van Gundy will make it work much better than last year, but until Monroe has a solid mid-range shot I'm skeptical that it's an "ideal pairing."

WISEFAN wrote:
Sparma wrote:Having looked up a Wikipedia description of sign-and-trade (including: "trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing."), I think the logistics would be well nigh impossible, for a number of reasons.  From our perspective, Monroe may be agreeable to a sign-and-trade because he could get the higher, hometown, max (I think), but would Minnesota be his team of choosing and could a gentleman's agreement be made firm prior to the draft so that the Lakers would choose the guy the Pistons wanted?  Not sure it could even be done in advance of the draft in accord with league rules.

Further, the salary matching requirement wouldn't be met in the Monroe for a 7th component, unless I'm missing something.  Would LA at some point be so far beneath the salary cap that they'd be eligible for the exception to the salary matching requirement?  Even with Kobe's max and Nash staying on?

That leaves the talent component as the interesting element to consider.  Clearly, the Lakers would by far get the best of the trade.  But in relation to Minnesota that may be realistic.  What Minnesota's trading is one year of Kevin Love (he's made clear he's not coming back after next season) as well as the cap relief caused by Love leading.   Under the terms of the sign and trade they'd be getting a longterm commitment from a top ten (top 5?) NBA player.  Of course they'd do it, if it were possible.  Minnesota might well also be game, because they'd giving up one year of Love for a longterm commitment from a very good, young, good guy center.  I think they'd do it (if possible).  The shaky part, as Wise points out, is the compensation to us.  Looking at a recent mock, I think we'd do it if it were the #4 pick (Exum), but anything above that, even #5 or #6 would be iffy at best.  I don't think Detroit'd go for a #7.  But as Wise says, you could imagine realistic adjustments.  But, as said, comparing the exchange of talent involved is likely a moot point given the logistics.  

Maybe something along those lines could be revisited in the summer.  The Detroit end would need to be sweetened, but maybe not by a whole lot.  Does the time limit (6 months?) for dealing a draftee kick in at the time of signing or right around draft time (I know there are plenty of draft day trades, but I can't remember a trade of draftees that happens a week after the draft)?

The Lakers would have to send us Nick Young or Kaman or both along with their 7th pick,  Timberwolves would have to kick in either Alexey or Rubio and their 2nd round pick to us and I would accept this deal.
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What Detroit can take from the Indiana-Miami series

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 31, 2014 11:48 am

Successful playoff caliber teams have high end skill players at the point, 2 guard and small forward. All three must be able to play really strong defense. There is no substitute for that combination regardless of the quality of your big men. And you need to have smart athletic defensive minded big men who can help and recover quickly to make it all work. This in my opinion is where Joe Dumars was out to lunch or out crunching too many donuts instead of building a competitive NBA team. How could it be possible for the Pistons to ever be competitive with the players Dumars signed to contracts for the last 6 seasons? I am sure Stan Van Gundy is shaking his head knowing how bad this current Piston team is right now and will do what is necessary to slowly piece by piece build a real team. In the meantime, Detroit will have to lose and lose big and build through the draft. Imagine how Miami took apart the Pacers picking on two players last night and you have to credit their coach. Roy Hibbert and David West are not good enough on the defensive end to get their team over the hump and into the finals. It was amazing how bad Hibbert looked on defense. He looked like Greg Monroe always being a day late and a dollar short with his help defense. And West never could figure out the high pick and roll. He repeatedly made the wrong decisions relating to staying or switching and was often making a half hearted attempt to recover when he did help. In the playoffs, if you can't get stops then you can't win period. That is why so many GMs are noticing Steven Adams and how he plays the game for OKC as a 20 year old. Adams makes his team better. He is fundamentally sound without an ego. It is laughable that Hibbert was pissed off earlier in the season because he wasn't getting enough touches on offense. The Pacers game plan was to go through Hibbert last night and establish him on the low post. What a joke. 

As one reflects on this current Piston roster, it is clear to me that in the playoffs, any opponent would have their pick as to who they would want to zero in on as a weak link. Could Monroe guard anyone in that game? Could Jennings defend anyone and wouldn't it be easy for any Heat player to stop Jennings cold? Does Drummond have any idea what it takes mentally to compete in a playoff situation where you have to always be alert and thinking and reacting quickly on defense? YOu can't depend on your size in playoff situations. You have to have the proper foot work to be able to box out and you have to have a mind that wants to do it. It should be clear to everyone just how far Joe Dumars has set back the Piston franchise. I know many of you are tired of the rants about our former GM and President but it is good to recognize the present situation and how bad it is for Piston fans so your expectations are not so high right now. For Piston fans, we have no excellent outstanding player. Not one player like that in 6 seasons has been signed to a Piston contract. So I hope you fans won't get bent out of shape and start blaming Stan Van Gundy next season like some of you have blamed previous coaches that Dumars hired. None of them ever had a chance regardless of what you might conjure up. Not Larry Brown or God himself could make inept second rate players into champions. So in the end Charlie V was wrong. It was about the talent as to why so many Piston teams that he was on got their asses kicked in regular season games. Just think how bad things could have been if Detroit had made the playoffs. No quality free agent wants to play with the current members of the Piston roster. It will be necessary to acquire quality players through the draft to have much hope. It is laughable that some of you have suggested that we might sign Westbrook or some other amazing player. It isn't going to happen. We get rejects like Smith and Jennings or Charlie V and ben Gordon. Stan Van Gundy must guard against signing any more rejects.  

I hope the owner and the fans will give Stan Van Gundy a chance to field a team that has the ability to get better according to NBA standards. It is going to take a long time to do that.

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Pacers Issues

Post  WTF on Sat May 31, 2014 3:21 am

Oracle wrote:They're likely to blow it, but it is tough!

How do you view them?

1. Is their poor play the result of thie late season slump? They were so dominant earlier that if you over react now to a slump, you could do all of the wrong things.

2. Have they just been exposed as the level of play has increased? They almost took out the champs last year, when they(Miami) were playing better, but this year, they're barely competitive! Paul George looks nothing like a budding superstar, Hibbert look slow and ineffective, Stevenson looks just plain lost, and Hill looks like a guard over the hill!

3. Is it a combination of both?

4. Do they have the right coaching for the offense/defense that they're trying to run?

These dudes are one holy mess of a team right now, I mean it's UGLY, almost as ugly as Larry Bird, but let's not go there right now  lol

I think they need a coaching change is in order as well as an upgrade at the PG.  The pacers have no real floor leadership IMO that's the problem with them. I don't think it was a slump as much as it was leadership issues and they were able to get by on talent early then sh!t got tight and they had no idea how to handle it.
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Sparma This Would Be An Acceptable Adjustment IMO

Post  WTF on Sat May 31, 2014 2:58 am

Sparma wrote:Having looked up a Wikipedia description of sign-and-trade (including: "trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing."), I think the logistics would be well nigh impossible, for a number of reasons.  From our perspective, Monroe may be agreeable to a sign-and-trade because he could get the higher, hometown, max (I think), but would Minnesota be his team of choosing and could a gentleman's agreement be made firm prior to the draft so that the Lakers would choose the guy the Pistons wanted?  Not sure it could even be done in advance of the draft in accord with league rules.

Further, the salary matching requirement wouldn't be met in the Monroe for a 7th component, unless I'm missing something.  Would LA at some point be so far beneath the salary cap that they'd be eligible for the exception to the salary matching requirement?  Even with Kobe's max and Nash staying on?

That leaves the talent component as the interesting element to consider.  Clearly, the Lakers would by far get the best of the trade.  But in relation to Minnesota that may be realistic.  What Minnesota's trading is one year of Kevin Love (he's made clear he's not coming back after next season) as well as the cap relief caused by Love leading.   Under the terms of the sign and trade they'd be getting a longterm commitment from a top ten (top 5?) NBA player.  Of course they'd do it, if it were possible.  Minnesota might well also be game, because they'd giving up one year of Love for a longterm commitment from a very good, young, good guy center.  I think they'd do it (if possible).  The shaky part, as Wise points out, is the compensation to us.  Looking at a recent mock, I think we'd do it if it were the #4 pick (Exum), but anything above that, even #5 or #6 would be iffy at best.  I don't think Detroit'd go for a #7.  But as Wise says, you could imagine realistic adjustments.  But, as said, comparing the exchange of talent involved is likely a moot point given the logistics.  

Maybe something along those lines could be revisited in the summer.  The Detroit end would need to be sweetened, but maybe not by a whole lot.  Does the time limit (6 months?) for dealing a draftee kick in at the time of signing or right around draft time (I know there are plenty of draft day trades, but I can't remember a trade of draftees that happens a week after the draft)?

The Lakers would have to send us Nick Young or Kaman or both along with their 7th pick,  Timberwolves would have to kick in either Alexey or Rubio and their 2nd round pick to us and I would accept this deal.
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Crap It Was

Post  WTF on Sat May 31, 2014 2:35 am

Oracle wrote:You were so right!

I told my neighbor that a guy on the board said that Godzilla was crap, and he chuckled a bit when saying that some people don't like certain types of films.

I replied that it's true, but added that most people that would go see Godzilla are likely fans of that genre!

Well I saw Godzilla and he saw Godzilla, and he authorized me to let you know that Godzilla was a total piece of crap!

It should have been named Rodzilla, because it looked like some dude named Rod got some buddies together and decided to eff up a great franchise!

No they should of called just plain zilla because it was ungodly awful. I warned you.

Now the movie Neighbors gets  thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up 
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What i do if i'm the Pacers

Post  Phil1980boy on Sat May 31, 2014 2:20 am

#1. See what the trade world look like for Hibbert. Roy Hibbert contract: $14,898,938 $15,514,031. He only got two years left on it and I can see somebody going for it. The Pacers might be stuck with him but I still would try to package him with Ron Artest part 2 and see what I could get.

#2. Let Ron Artest part 2 move along with his life. Anybody with eyes can see this kid is on the down-slide with his mental stability. Get something for him and say God bless and have A good life.

#3. Call Detroit, call Boston, call Minnesota, call Cleveland and see if they management is as desperate and willing to give away Rondo, Monroe, Love and K.Irving as they fan base are.

Indiana need 1 more star player. The guy they could really use but he would never go there is Melo Anthony. Also, don't let the media mind F.U.C.K you. G.Hill is not A superstar but he not A bad PG. He not the reason they not NBA finals ready. Hibbert and Ron Artest part 2 are the reasons for that.


Anyway, GO PISTONS!!!!!!!!
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I got A trade

Post  Phil1980boy on Sat May 31, 2014 1:42 am

Let's trade our 23 year old, mentally stable, double, double machine, G.Monroe for Indiana's cancer. Ron Artest part 2 and Roy "I got no  ball " Hibbert?

That would be A good trade. It would give us A bench guy who plays his natural position as A Center and A natural 2 guard in R.Artest part 2.

Since we in love with everybody playing they so call "natural positions" here in Pistons forum.  lol lol 


In this 2014 NBA Draft if the guys name is not Smart, Exum, Wiggins, Parker or Embibi I'm good. All these guys will be gone before the 6th pick takes place.


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Oh Wise One...

Post  Oracle on Fri May 30, 2014 11:22 pm

You were so right!

I told my neighbor that a guy on the board said that Godzilla was crap, and he chuckled a bit when saying that some people don't like certain types of films.

I replied that it's true, but added that most people that would go see Godzilla are likely fans of that genre!

Well I saw Godzilla and he saw Godzilla, and he authorized me to let you know that Godzilla was a total piece of crap!

It should have been named Rodzilla, because it looked like some dude named Rod got some buddies together and decided to eff up a great franchise!
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Pacers facing tough offseason

Post  Oracle on Fri May 30, 2014 11:15 pm

They're likely to blow it, but it is tough!

How do you view them?

1. Is their poor play the result of thie late season slump? They were so dominant earlier that if you over react now to a slump, you could do all of the wrong things.

2. Have they just been exposed as the level of play has increased? They almost took out the champs last year, when they(Miami) were playing better, but this year, they're barely competitive! Paul George looks nothing like a budding superstar, Hibbert look slow and ineffective, Stevenson looks just plain lost, and Hill looks like a guard over the hill!

3. Is it a combination of both?

4. Do they have the right coaching for the offense/defense that they're trying to run?

These dudes are one holy mess of a team right now, I mean it's UGLY, almost as ugly as Larry Bird, but let's not go there right now  lol


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Van Gumby is right...

Post  Oracle on Fri May 30, 2014 11:04 pm

Drummond & Monroe is a hard combination to give up on, especially when it comes to breaking them up for a player that may have trouble staying in the league in Josh Smith!

Let's face it Josh will ONLY be good if he can land in the almost perfect situation, and there aren't that many of them out there for him, and almost none ready and waiting for him to come free!

Hell, maybe you can switch Monroe & Drummond up a bit on defense and let Drummond defend the dudes that want to be away from the basket(perimeter bigs), on a matchup by matchup basis!

But don't tell me that we can't come up with a defense that helps Monroe become a better defender!

Having said that, if we keep both Monroe & Josh, I would like to see Monroe, in the interest of the team, come off the bench as a center and let Josh start at PF!

IMO, he could still get all of his minutes, and I wouldn't rule out starting him and Josh when a more offensive frontcourt is needed!

But I can't see how a team with Monroe, Josh, Drummond & Harrelson, shouldn't be totally dominant if we could just get some dead eye shooters... there's just way too much talent there!
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Cool

Post  Sparma on Fri May 30, 2014 10:17 pm

I do think Van Gundy believes that Monroe is a very good player, as he's expressed numerous times now. Of course, it's useful for him to make that known if (1) he plans to work with Monroe in the short and long term and (2) if he wants to convey to interested teams that he'll only be traded for a good return. So I'm certain he thinks Monroe's really good and that he doesn't want to be ripped off in the case of a trade. The rest is more murky from my perspective. Maybe that's being cynical in the face of his recent pronouncement that Drummond and Monroe make for an "ideal pairing."

Not sure what to say about Smith and Knight, about whom he's said far less. My guess would be that two of his pronouncements apply: a) it's a fresh start for everyone and b) if someone turns out not to fit with the plan, the team will try to move them. I believe both Smith and Knight can be traded, but probably for damaged goods in return (Deron Williams?), unlike Monroe.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 30, 2014 9:42 pm

Sparma wrote:Having looked up a Wikipedia description of sign-and-trade (including: "trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing."), I think the logistics would be well nigh impossible, for a number of reasons.  From our perspective, Monroe may be agreeable to a sign-and-trade because he could get the higher, hometown, max (I think), but would Minnesota be his team of choosing and could a gentleman's agreement be made firm prior to the draft so that the Lakers would choose the guy the Pistons wanted?  Not sure it could even be done in advance of the draft in accord with league rules.

Further, the salary matching requirement wouldn't be met in the Monroe for a 7th component, unless I'm missing something.  Would LA at some point be so far beneath the salary cap that they'd be eligible for the exception to the salary matching requirement?  Even with Kobe's max and Nash staying on?

That leaves the talent component as the interesting element to consider.  Clearly, the Lakers would by far get the best of the trade.  But in relation to Minnesota that may be realistic.  What Minnesota's trading is one year of Kevin Love (he's made clear he's not coming back after next season) as well as the cap relief caused by Love leading.   Under the terms of the sign and trade they'd be getting a longterm commitment from a top ten (top 5?) NBA player.  Of course they'd do it, if it were possible.  Minnesota might well also be game, because they'd giving up one year of Love for a longterm commitment from a very good, young, good guy center.  I think they'd do it (if possible).  The shaky part, as Wise points out, is the compensation to us.  Looking at a recent mock, I think we'd do it if it were the #4 pick (Exum), but anything above that, even #5 or #6 would be iffy at best.  I don't think Detroit'd go for a #7.  But as Wise says, you could imagine realistic adjustments.  But, as said, comparing the exchange of talent involved is likely a moot point given the logistics.  

Maybe something along those lines could be revisited in the summer.  The Detroit end would need to be sweetened, but maybe not by a whole lot.  Does the time limit (6 months?) for dealing a draftee kick in at the time of signing or right around draft time (I know there are plenty of draft day trades, but I can't remember a trade of draftees that happens a week after the draft)?
Sparma do you believe Stan Van Gundy is not serious about his statement that he loves the combination of Monroe and Drummond going forward? He mentions making adjustments in the defense for Monroe. It appears that he has spent a lot of time on this issue relating to keeping or trading Monroe. It looks to me as if he wants Monroe on his team. 

As sharp as Van Gundy is, it must also be true that he would not want to coach Josh Smith. Do you believe it will be impossible to trade Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings? I would like it if some of you smart basketball people could come up with an idea that could help Van Gundy get rid of Smith and Jennings.

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Sheed Gone

Post  Sissy1946 on Fri May 30, 2014 9:36 pm

Horsesh*t & Just Plain Bullsh*t for not keeping Sheed, SVG needs to ask around & see how Drummond feels about this disaster not to keep him, he said he's helped him so Andre needs to tell Van Gundy to keep him, an ex piston, why wouldn't you keep him?
No bullsh*t moves here now SVG, plain & simple play the winning hand, Sheed is good for the team, he did a hell of a job last year especialy with all the crap going on.
Can't wait for the moves to start flowing concerning Smith, Jennings & Bynum, how many of those Ball Hog Gunners do we keep? If one then I can live with that, 2 then I'm done & if he keeps all 3 maybe looking for another team to like, they do not pass the ball.
Don't know how we can get them but wish we could get Reddick & that forward from the Rockets & love Chandler Parsons from the Rockets, both great shooters with Monroe & Drummond.
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Sheed Gone

Post  Sparma on Fri May 30, 2014 9:00 pm

Drummond comments as follows: “He’s definitely been a big help for me. He’s taught me a lot. My back-to-the-basket game is getting better. I’ve learned a lot of moves that before, I wasn’t doing. … I did a drop-step spin move into a layup. I haven’t done that, ever. It’s working on things like that, that get me really excited."

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Monroe - Love - 7th trade ??

Post  Sparma on Fri May 30, 2014 8:30 pm

Having looked up a Wikipedia description of sign-and-trade (including: "trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing."), I think the logistics would be well nigh impossible, for a number of reasons. From our perspective, Monroe may be agreeable to a sign-and-trade because he could get the higher, hometown, max (I think), but would Minnesota be his team of choosing and could a gentleman's agreement be made firm prior to the draft so that the Lakers would choose the guy the Pistons wanted? Not sure it could even be done in advance of the draft in accord with league rules.

Further, the salary matching requirement wouldn't be met in the Monroe for a 7th component, unless I'm missing something. Would LA at some point be so far beneath the salary cap that they'd be eligible for the exception to the salary matching requirement? Even with Kobe's max and Nash staying on?

That leaves the talent component as the interesting element to consider. Clearly, the Lakers would by far get the best of the trade. But in relation to Minnesota that may be realistic. What Minnesota's trading is one year of Kevin Love (he's made clear he's not coming back after next season) as well as the cap relief caused by Love leading. Under the terms of the sign and trade they'd be getting a longterm commitment from a top ten (top 5?) NBA player. Of course they'd do it, if it were possible. Minnesota might well also be game, because they'd giving up one year of Love for a longterm commitment from a very good, young, good guy center. I think they'd do it (if possible). The shaky part, as Wise points out, is the compensation to us. Looking at a recent mock, I think we'd do it if it were the #4 pick (Exum), but anything above that, even #5 or #6 would be iffy at best. I don't think Detroit'd go for a #7. But as Wise says, you could imagine realistic adjustments. But, as said, comparing the exchange of talent involved is likely a moot point given the logistics.

Maybe something along those lines could be revisited in the summer. The Detroit end would need to be sweetened, but maybe not by a whole lot. Does the time limit (6 months?) for dealing a draftee kick in at the time of signing or right around draft time (I know there are plenty of draft day trades, but I can't remember a trade of draftees that happens a week after the draft)?
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It Could Be A Win Win For All Three With The Right Adjustments

Post  WTF on Fri May 30, 2014 5:06 pm

Sparma wrote:Laker Nation proposes the following trade.   I know that free agency comes after the draft, so the Lakers would need to choose for the Pistons with the full assurance that the trade would go through subsequently.  Also, I'm not quite sure how sign-and-trade works.  Does a sign-and-trade require that the player have agreed to go to a specific place first or could Detroit sign Monroe and have complete freedom where they send him?  Not so sure Monroe would agree to go to Minnesota.


"The purple and gold will continue to make a push to acquire Love, but they will need to get creative.  While three-team deals are hard to make, that is the best option for the Lakers to get a deal done.

A plausible trade partner could be that of the Detroit Pistons.  Here is the trade idea (please note this would be main part of the deal):

Lakers receive: Kevin Love

Pistons receive: 7th pick in NBA Draft (LA would select player for Detroit in draft)

T’Wolves receive: Greg Monroe (Sign & Trade)"

We would have to get a little more than just that 7th pick out of this deal. Mind you I don't mind trading Moose but not in this scenario. The Lakers or Timberwolves would have to come up with either an additional pick or player to add to that 7th pick.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 30, 2014 4:12 pm

Sebastian wrote:Thanks, again, Joe! Joe 
Nice picture of Joe Seb. I still like Jerebco and believe he will be a good player under Stan Van Gundy. Jerebco's last half of the season wasn't bad. He is not the problem. Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings are two big problems though. There is something about Smith that none of his teammates have liked so far in his career. Is he trustworthy? Can his teammates count on him keeping his head in the game. It will be interesting as to if Van Gundy and Smith clash or if Smith finally finds a coach who he will listen to for more than 2 minutes.

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Still Not Likely

Post  Murph on Fri May 30, 2014 4:08 pm

Oracle...I'm not blaming Sparma for coming up with that cockamamie trade proposal.  But it's still crazy.

Perhaps the most recent comment on Laker Nation said it best:

"Are you HIGH??? This is the Stupidest thing i heard. Minnesota will want more for Love than monroe. (Which some team out there will give). Pistons will want more than the 7th pick for Monroe. The lakers would be the only team winning this trade. NOBODY in their right mind will do this trade!!"   smoke
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 30, 2014 4:06 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:Give me A high IQ PG with size. I don't care if he A pass first or scoring PG. If he smart he will figure out what he needs to do to win and make everybody better.

The Pistons need more smart players. The Pistons had/have core guys who are not smart basketball players. Very low Basketball IQ guys.

Stuckey! DUMB basketball player. Low IQ, injury prone, right hand only, head down, out of control, coming right at you.

J.Smith. I can describe Josh Smith with 2 words. No Discipline. Stop shooting long 2's Josh, stop shooting 3's Josh, Post up more Josh, why take that shot at the end of the game Josh?  Pass on that shot and drive to the rim Josh, post up more Josh, bad shot Josh. O NO JOSH!!

B.Jennings. Play Ground special. No right hand what so ever. So if he on the right side of the rim, he using the left hand. Usually that rolls out. Next is the left hand drive, step-back, pull up, off balance, mid-range shot. Hood basketball special 101. Fundamentals are broken!

If I'm GM, I don't care if I make the playoff or not. I got to get these guys out of Detroit unless Josh Smith shows that he ready to do whatever it takes to win including A bench player role.
I like this one Phil! No doubt Stan Van Gundy is saying the same thing.

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Sparma/Murph

Post  Oracle on Fri May 30, 2014 3:28 pm

Murph, Sparma isn't suggesting any of that, he's just asking the question of how likely is it.

The words are from this article, which covers a lot of other ground as well - Detroit Pistons Links 05/30/14: Appling, Roberts, Free Agent Talk

But it's a good question! I tend to agree with you that it's unlikely, but stranger stuff has happened!

Monroe may be the one to go, simply because he presents the most value to other teams and thus our return value is highest.

That coupled with the fact that Josh is indeed a better PF, may have Monroe packing if the right deal comes along!


EDIT: The full trade article is here - Trade Idea: To Acquire Kevin Love, Lakers Could Use The Detroit Pistons
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Not Likely

Post  Murph on Fri May 30, 2014 1:05 pm

Sparma wrote:Laker Nation proposes the following trade.   I know that free agency comes after the draft, so the Lakers would need to choose for the Pistons with the full assurance that the trade would go through subsequently.  Also, I'm not quite sure how sign-and-trade works.  Does a sign-and-trade require that the player have agreed to go to a specific place first or could Detroit sign Monroe and have complete freedom where they send him?  Not so sure Monroe would agree to go to Minnesota.


"The purple and gold will continue to make a push to acquire Love, but they will need to get creative.  While three-team deals are hard to make, that is the best option for the Lakers to get a deal done.

A plausible trade partner could be that of the Detroit Pistons.  Here is the trade idea (please note this would be main part of the deal):

Lakers receive: Kevin Love

Pistons receive: 7th pick in NBA Draft (LA would select player for Detroit in draft)

T’Wolves receive: Greg Monroe (Sign & Trade)"

So Laker Nation wants to trade their 7th pick for Kevin Love?...I don't blame them.   That trade's certainly great for the Lakers.  

But the Pistons?...not so much.

If the Lakers threw in Kendall Marshall and Marshon Brooks...then maybe. And while we're at it, the T-Wolves should have to take on Jennings' crappy contract.
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Re: FORUM

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