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Let's keep it simple gentlemen and put the team first.

Post  deusXango on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:28 pm

Brandon Jennings is not going to be the second coming of a young Nate Archibald (led the league in scoring and assists in the same year), so cut out the "hero ball," and do what this team needs; distribute & facilitate and keep his shots to 10 and under (they can all be 3 pointers, but no more than 10 shots a game!).

Stop playing Greg Monroe for next years contract and get the most out of him on this contract by bringing him off the bench; if he looked good playing alongside Jason Maxiell (hee, hee, hee) in last years starting lineup, then he'll be "all world" leading our 2nd unit, no matter what current big man he's paired with. Stuckey found his nitch on the 2nd unit, why can't Monroe?

It's time for Cheeks to "man up" and go to Josh Smith, and genuinely bury the hatchet; Smith needs to play the post with the fire and skill he's capable of, on both ends of the floor, limiting his outside shooting to no more than 18 feet, and this will only be fully realized if he's willing to give his all to the coach he's playing for. When a player resents a coach in retaliation to perceived mistreatment, he doesn't go that extra mile for the team, and that has a negative ripple effect. If that's not true, why these second half crashes and 4th quarter sucking exhibitions since Cheeks chose "to make an example of Smith?"

Andre Drummond has nothing to prove, but a lot of growing to do and that growing means he needs to cut back on the minutes he's playing; he's smart, so he needs to watch, breath, and digest what he sees his opponents doing that are working, and what their flaws are. He's got to be prepared to play beyond 82 games, if we're to be a competitive playoff team.

I've said it before, and firmly stand by my feelings, that KCP should be encouraged to be more offensively aggressive than he has; being a rookie has nothing to do with what we need in the scoring department, because he's more than capable of delivering 20+ points a night. He's a scorer and that's why Joe drafted him, so turn him loose! If he's only going to get 25 minutes a night, his volume of shots should, and can, double without hurting the team.

If Maurice Cheeks is all the coach some seem to think he is, he's way past experimenting and ready to bring balance to a marginally unbalanced team; stop playing favorites and allowing Joe to coach the team through him. If Joe wants to coach, let him bring his fat ass to the bench. Speaking of the bench, I ain't with this separation from the team on the bench and sitting with the fans; that body language transmits a negative subliminal message. If Cheeks doesn't want to be associated with the team, QUIT!!!
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Phillip & Lemonpen

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:43 pm

Too true, I've said that I enjoyed last years team a lot more, even though, like a massive pileup on the freeway, I can't stop watching!

I think last year, we knew they were likely to lose, but it was fun watching Drummond grow and the Knight/Calderon situation. This year we expect them to win, and I'm taking the losses a lot harder than I thought I would, and the disappointment is very high!

Speaking of Knight, he may be finally coming around! On the road in Phoenix, he put up some pretty decent PG numbers, and has clearly emerged as the star player on a struggling Buck team!

Knight - 25 points, 8 assists, 3 boards, 4 turns and one block

He did that against the surprising Phoenix Suns in their house as the Bucks fell short!
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Pistons Games are boring these days.

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:01 pm

Pistons games make me sleepy these days.


Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep 


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Man O Man

Post  lemonpen on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:15 pm

The Stones have been really tough to watch. Never thought I would turnum off to watch No Country For Old Men with the wife. I think we watched some Steven Segal movie for the 19th time instead of the Stones. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I've not paid close enough attention lately but has anyone seen AD slide over to guard a PF while Moose picks up the C.
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Blasphemous & Stuff

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:50 pm

I know this may sound blasphemous, but there's another way to look at the starting 5!

Instead of sending Monroe to the bench, send Drummond to the bench! I look back at last year, and I may be crazy, but Monroe & Maxiell performed better on both ends than what we have now.

It's possible that while Andre is nice to have, having an almost non factor on offense, i.e. a guy that can only dunk is a liability! That might free up the paint for two dudes that really need the space to operate... just a thought!

@DX - Good post DX, and it's good to see you recognize some of the coaching points! BTW, I couldn't agree more that Bynum looks done, and the best solution right now is to get a lot more pep into the 2nd unit!

@Sparma & @Don - Joe will get through this! IMO, after this, there is 90% probability that a trade will be done, but a 2% probability any lineup changes will occur any time soon. When you have a team meeting like the one they had, it almost guaranteed that they will keep trying the same stuff. Of course CV had to stoke the flames by tweeting that he's healthy! No time like the present to stick the knife in Smile

@Don - I think you may have missed my point! It's not that LB could have made them into world beaters, although I think he could, it's that a good coach would get the best out of a group of players. I would be shocked if you thought this was the best they could produce.

@Murph - Yeah something needs to be done, but even if he won't start Singler, he needs to play him more in the 3rd & the 4th to get some movement. Sparma made a good point that Jennings is probably one of the last guards you would want in the 4th, and I'm sure the corpse formerly known as Chauncey Billups was supposed to be that guy for us, but obviously that didn't work out!
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We've lost all we need to, and then some.

Post  deusXango on Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:27 pm

Murph wrote:I think the time has come to give Kyle Singler a shot at the starting line-up, and bring either Monroe or Smith off the bench.  

Cheeks could experiment by starting a front line of Drummond, Monroe and Singler, and then Drummond, Smith and Singler, and see which one works best.

If Singler is truly the "glue guy" that some of us think he is, then he'll improve the chemistry on the starting unit.

If something isn't done soon, the Pistons are going to fall out of playoff contention, Joe is going to get canned, and the new GM is going to fire Cheeks and make a series of trades to bring in his own personnel.  Joe needs to sit down with Cheeks and discuss all options.
Absolute and total agreement with you Murph! At this point it's not about loss, but gain and promoting Singler to the starting lineup, playing his natural position of SF is a winning move. I personally favor a frontline of Drummond, Smith, and Singler, with a 2nd unit of Monroe, Stuckey, and Datome. What we need is for Cheeks to settle on a 8, no more than 9 man rotation (Harrellson being the 9th), and no more of Bynum, Billups, or Jerebko!! It's time to start putting some winning streaks together.
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What Have We Got To Lose?

Post  Murph on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:35 pm

I think the time has come to give Kyle Singler a shot at the starting line-up, and bring either Monroe or Smith off the bench.

Cheeks could experiment by starting a front line of Drummond, Monroe and Singler, and then Drummond, Smith and Singler, and see which one works best.

If Singler is truly the "glue guy" that some of us think he is, then he'll improve the chemistry on the starting unit.

If something isn't done soon, the Pistons are going to fall out of playoff contention, Joe is going to get canned, and the new GM is going to fire Cheeks and make a series of trades to bring in his own personnel. Joe needs to sit down with Cheeks and discuss all options.
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Sickening...gut wrenching, idiotic decision making from top to bottom!!!

Post  deusXango on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:32 pm

Oracle wrote:I learned from a great boss when I first became a manager of a small group.

He told me that I'll go far if I understand one thing!

There are no bad people, just bad managers!

He didn't mean that there are no bad employees, what he meant was that it was my job to get the best out of whoever I had, and that in achieving that mission, that I'll be surprised at the results!

In my experience that has always been true, but everyone is a product of their collective experiences, and I'm not here to tell you that yours are wrong, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Having said that, I just can't see how a team that makes absolutely no adjustments can be considered coached, let alone be badly coached!

IMO, Cheeks is an invisible man, an empty suit!

By this time with Larry Brown, this team would be one of the most feared in the NBA, the talent level in the frontcourt is that imposing, and the starting guard play is decent!

I will say that although Jennings assists are great, there is a big difference between assists and playmaking!

Jennings is not really playmaking, but again, that assumes there are plays to make, and again, that goes to coaching! Even so, I would still like to see Siva get more PT. I mean, how much worse could we lose?
Oracle, you made some damn good points and I'm surprised more people can't acknowledge the obvious failings of our coaching regime. I'm disgusted to the point that I'm going after all who I feel have let the fans down (me at least), and are not trying to correct any of the mistakes.

Joe Dumars: WTF was on his mind when he passed on Trey Burke? The talk about Burke's lack of height shouldn't have been an issue, but the empty seats at the Palace, if size was to be discussed. We needed a PG who was a leader, and Jennings with all his "swag" ain't it!! KCP may have potential, but he ain't showing to be worth the sacrifices made to have passed on Trey Burke. Why was Bynum resigned, and Chauncey brought back, at this time, when we had Stuckey, and BK7 (two young combo guards), and should have had Burke or, at the very least, MCW?? In a sign and trade for Jennings (which was unnecessary), why did Joe give up on Middleton? The Bucks were in no position to make player demands, especially with our record from last year, and the fact that matching our offer and keeping Jennings would have wrecked their team and fan base! Due to George Karl's health challenges, I can understand Joe's reluctance in pursuing him, but why not have gone after Lionel Hollins with the same vigor he went after Josh Smith? He sat on his fat ass and pondered, and come to the conclusion that Mo Cheeks was the best man for the job?! If major moves or a drastic turnaround doesn't take place soon, hiring Mo Cheeks should be the last bad ass decision Joe Dumars made.

Maurice Cheeks: IMHO he has mishandled this team, more than he's been a worthwhile mentor/teacher of offense and defense. He came in praising Rodney Stuckey, and to his credit, Stuckey has played arguably the best ball of his career (coming off the bench, no less); the problem is, Stuckey is one player on a team!!! Joe invested a lot in drafting KCP at #8, why hasn't he been given the "green light," by his coach, to shoot like a madman? Jennings does. The talk around town is how well KCP plays defense, which is well and good, but he was drafted to score and scoring at a high level is what this team needs; how come Cheeks didn't/hasn't been talking up KCP like he did Stuckey? The team needs the production of a first year player more than it does a last year player. Yeah Sebastian, this should be Stuckey's last year, no matter what he does! His value has increased, but it's still less than world beating, outstanding; one year of his contract he's played up to decent...trade him by the deadline, but that ain't on Cheeks, it's on Joe. The constant dogging (benching for sh!t reasons) of Josh Smith is something that doesn't sit well with me, and I wonder how many of his team mates share my feelings? As a fan I can side with Cheeks, but as a player in the locker room I may not support my coach's decision, but remain professionally silent. If anything was to be done with Smith, it would be to demand that he played in the post or else; with his time in the league, and his desire to become an all-star, he should know where he's most effective. Play the post or sit the bench! Why hasn't Monroe been taking the 15-18 footers? He's the player who needs to be taking the mid-range shots, not Smith taking long 2's and 3 pointers. WTF are you talking about in these practices Cheeks?! Stuckey has been out with an injury, so that means Singler should step up, right? Why did both Bynum and Billups play more than Singler last night, scoring a combined 9 pts.? How does Cheeks justify leaving Bynum on the floor for over 20 minutes when he shoots 3-11 from the floor (1-4 on 3 pt.) when KCP is limited to 26 minutes on a night when he went 6-8 from the field, going 2-2 on 3 pointers? Chauncey, with all his sh!t talking about being the starting PG, at the beginning of the season, only took 2 shots in 14 minutes and had zero assists!!! Why are Bynum and Chauncey played together? Coaching decisions.
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Trades?

Post  Sparma on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:18 pm

Thanks for your insights about the game, Cool.

I think you'll get your wish for a new GM soon enough, at the end of the season if there's not a significant upturn.  Even I think Joe will have received plenty of opportunities to turn it around by then.

I regard Drummond and Monroe as the core assets.  I see Smith as a supertalented guy who could do well in the right circumstances (eg how was he persuaded to hoist only a few threes one year in Atlanta?).  Isn't his lifetime shooting percentage before this year 46+%, but around 40% this year?  A team can live with that career % (even with some dumb shots included), along with rebounding, some tough D (along with some lesser D), and excellent passing for a big guy.  The knuckleheadedness that you keep mentioning doesn't seem to go away though, in fact it seems to have gotten worse in Detroit.  I think Joe managed to sign a real talented guy, someone who could be a real asset, but a guy who's dispensable here.  If Joe can swing a good deal for Smith, go for it.  A three way deal involving Asik seems like a realistic lead to pursue.  Smith would help Houston more than Asik and plenty of teams would like to have Asik.  We should be able to get a decent return that way.  Playing on a team with bigger talents like Howard and Harden who'd have a realistic chance to make a deep run might be the way to get Smith on the straight and narrow.

As mentioned, my fear is that a Joe in survival mode will be tempted into a subpar trade for Monroe.  I'm open to a good trade, but think it'd be real tough to pull off (even in a package involving CV and/or Stuckey).  I'm leery that you're going to let one of your two pillars go prematurely.  Even in an off year, 14.5 ppg along with 8.9 rebounds coming from a bright, hardworking, good teammate 23 y.o. is nothing to sneeze at.  I don't think it's homerism to see that bumped to 17/ 18 ppg and 10 rebounds per game.  I do understand that his footspeed will always limit him on D.  Maybe a sign and trade once he's signed to a max contract will make sense next summer; for now, I'm strongly inclined to hold on to Monroe.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:29 pm

Oracle wrote:I learned from a great boss when I first became a manager of a small group.

He told me that I'll go far if I understand one thing!

There are no bad people, just bad managers!

He didn't mean that there are no bad employees, what he meant was that it was my job to get the best out of whoever I had, and that in achieving that mission, that I'll be surprised at the results!

In my experience that has always been true, but everyone is a product of their collective experiences, and I'm not here to tell you that yours are wrong, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Having said that, I just can't see how a team that makes absolutely no adjustments can be considered coached, let alone be badly coached!

IMO, Cheeks is an invisible man, an empty suit!

By this time with Larry Brown, this team would be one of the most feared in the NBA, the talent level in the frontcourt is that imposing, and the starting guard play is decent!

I will say that although Jennings assists are great, there is a big difference between assists and playmaking!

Jennings is not really playmaking, but again, that assumes there are plays to make, and again, that goes to coaching! Even so, I would still like to see Siva get more PT. I mean, how much worse could we lose?

Oracle I agree with you relating to what you have to do as a manager in the business world but we are talking on this forum about the NBA where you need real basketball players to succeed. Can you bring an accountant in from the office and make him into a point guard in the NBA with some super management technique? No you can't and if Larry Brown had taken the job instead of Cheeks, he would be calling in sick right now. Larry was a basket case when he coached the Pistons. It was the players who were on his team that won so many games despite Larry's personal issues. It seems you must believe that somehow a super stud coach can make Bynum, Jennings, Billups and KCP into real NBA two way players. Can that different coach make them grow taller as well? No Bynum has never been a real NBA player who should play more than mop up minutes in the NBA. Billups has too many injuries to keep up with the talented guards in the league. Jennings is a talented but small guy who cannot play effective defense well. KCP would be sitting on the bench on a quality NBA team this season or be in the D league like Siva and Solomon Hill. There is nothing wrong with going to the D league if you are a young guy like KCP. Drummond is not ready to play the minutes he is getting. He slacked off in high school and college and didn't learn the game back then so every game is a new learning experience. He should be on the court less until he gets better. Monroe is basically flawed because he lacks quickness and has never learned the hard way how to play defense and position himself properly to get defensive rebounds. He has always been so big he could get away with being lazy. But at Georgetown, Monroe was always in foul trouble and never took defense to heart and cheated himself. Then comes Smith who has always been a mental case for any coach who has coached him in the past. He always has issues with his teammates as well with those players who do sacrifice themselves for the team for the purpose of winning. Josh just doesn't get that and has never been that kind of player. I think he might have wanted to change when he arrived here but it isn't easy to break old mental habits. No Oracle this is a top management problem created by Joe Dumars. Anyone who had been watching the Pistons over the past 5 years would have gone out and obtained some tough minded experienced guards who can play a team orientated style of basketball. That means they need to be able to play hard nosed defense, have amazing offensive skills and have it in mind that they must make their teammates into better players. Isiah Thomas fit that mold. Thomas was on NBA TV before the season started and identified the issues that were facing the Pistons with the characters Joe Dumars had signed to play for this season.

The only thing a coach could do right now is bring up some new players from the D league and greatly reduce the playing time of all of the starters. Bring in Josh Harrellison in as a starter or Jerebco or play those two guys equal minutes with Monroe and Drummond and see who is most productive. Start Singler at small forward. Trade Smith or bench him when he doesn't show up to play. Maybe those players are not great players but I prefer to watch them because they are not brain dead. But Joe Dumars runs things and he wants the big three to play together and he likes Bynum and Jennings. And Joe likes Smith so Cheeks must follow orders from his boss. So I respectfully disagree with you that Brown or any other coach would have built a powerhouse team with this group of handicapped players.

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3-7, the last 10 games ...

Post  Sebastian on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:19 pm

Tomorrow night, OUR Pistons travel to MSG to play Knicks team that played some pretty good basketball while in Texas. They were 2-1, beating the Spurs and the Mavericks, while barely losing to the Rockets by two, in between their two wins.

Meanwhile, OUR Pistons have looked like sh!t over their last 10 games. WE have lost the last 4 games and are 1-6 over the last 7 games.

I wonder if Mo', Joe, and Gores (yes, Gores, too) can't see that Moose can't guard the PF position, which by the way is a similar problem that B. Jennings and J. Smith are having. These guys, Jennings (PG) nor Smith (SF) cannot guard the opposing position.

So, ultimately, 3/5 of the starting team can't guard their man in a League where man-to-man defense is the predominate defensive strategy.

And, when you add that OUR starting SG is a rookie and has yet to go through the League and the starting center is a 20 year old with one year of college and played part-time minutes as a rookie, OUR Pistons are a collection of players who have compromised defensive tendencies and skills.

Damn, you Joe Dumars, do somthing!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:53 am

Sparma wrote:In his quest to gather lots of talent for this year's roster, Dumars paid little attention to the balance of the roster.  A genuine sharpshooter (eg Calderon) would help a lot.  If there's a decent Josh Smith trade to be had, I'd go for it.  Someone mentioned he's friends with Houston's Howard.  There's a place for him in Houston as they're trying to trade Asik; it'd need to be a three way deal because we don't need Asik [this kind of trade came up at PP].

The coach needs to make adjustments, as Oracle says.  A tiny example: if two of your key players (AD and Singler) run into foul trouble in the 3rd, you may need to shift from your ordinary substitution pattern and let one or both sweat it out the court.  Your second unit's not scoring?  Trying putting Monroe there and see if that doesn't help.  I'm guessing Monroe's ppg and rebounds would both go up on the second unit, if he can get comparable minutes.

From what I've seen Jennings bears a big responsibility for  4th quarter troubles, with his excessive dribbling early in the clock, heaving up low percentage shots of his own, or putting teammates in awkward spots with little time left.  Only Singler's running without the ball.  In my experience, at my level of play, players run when they know there's a decent chance of getting a pass and cut back on running when they can't expect a pass.  Maybe that's human nature.  In any case, it's not a tendency that magically disappears at the NBA level.  I gather that Cheeks is working hard with Jennings on this issue, even if the results aren't there yet.

Good post Sparma. I might have been one of the few Piston followers to have watched this game to the end. It was amazing how lifeless the first unit was in the 3rd quarter on both ends. Memphis picked it up with their big men figuring out that they could have their way anytime they wanted and could get close to the basket very easily to post up. Our big men seemed to just be concentrating on running from end to end without purpose. I don't think any point guard could be effective on this team. Memphis over played Jennings. The lanes were clogged because the center, power forward and small forward were just standing around when Smith, Drummond and Monroe were in the game. No screens being set at all and no movement at all. The McDonalds All Star game offenses looked better than Detroit's and those high school players had not played with their teammates before that game. Nobody is thinking it seems and seem to be content to watch what the point guards are doing. When Bynum came in then it deteriorated even more. He never passed the basketball to anyone other than Drummond about 2 times. It was the same old school yard style basketball. I can't imagine anyone would want to play basketball with Bynum. He is a one man show or circus act which I have said many times before. He was benched at Arizona and had to transfer because he was playing the same way there many years ago. The coaching staff is basically dealing with infants who have very little knowledge about how to play with 5 other players. If you watched Drummond play in college you might guess that he has a huge disadvantage right now because of his lack of smarts on the court. Monroe actually played better in the first half than usual but returned to his old ways on defense in the 2nd. Smith has this body language that shows me he is not really interested in leading a team or even giving the effort it takes to hold his own against Prince who killed him in this game. I was saying that it sure would be nice to be watching Prince again. Prince is always prepared and wants to do the right thing. We have players who do not know what it takes to do the right thing relating to preparation that any pro athlete should know.

Again Joe Dumars has created this nightmare with his selection of inept guards and mentally challenged big men. And he signed a real stinker in Smith who is a guy that will always do it his way no matter what the cost to the team. Atlanta management had his number. His former teammates had his number. I love this idea you have to trade him to the Rockets but shouldn't we have a new GM before any additional problems are created for this team?

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14-20

Post  Sebastian on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:53 am

What are Gores, Joe, and Mo' expecting from US Pistons fans? Are they thinking that WE will continue to wait with bated breath on the immaculate creation of an NBA team. That at some point, during the '13-'14 NBA schedule OUR Pistons will begin to resemble a "real" NBA team.

Everybody and their grandma knows that the current constitution of the Detroit Pistons is not a competitive NBA team. OUR guys don't defend the paint well and don't play 48 minutes. WE currently look like straight sh!t!

Something has got to be done, today!


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Plenty of blame to go around

Post  Sparma on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:29 am

In his quest to gather lots of talent for this year's roster, Dumars paid little attention to the balance of the roster. A genuine sharpshooter (eg Calderon) would help a lot. If there's a decent Josh Smith trade to be had, I'd go for it. Someone mentioned he's friends with Houston's Howard. There's a place for him in Houston as they're trying to trade Asik; it'd need to be a three way deal because we don't need Asik [this kind of trade came up at PP].

The coach needs to make adjustments, as Oracle says. A tiny example: if two of your key players (AD and Singler) run into foul trouble in the 3rd, you may need to shift from your ordinary substitution pattern and let one or both sweat it out the court. Your second unit's not scoring? Trying putting Monroe there and see if that doesn't help. I'm guessing Monroe's ppg and rebounds would both go up on the second unit, if he can get comparable minutes.

From what I've seen Jennings bears a big responsibility for 4th quarter troubles, with his excessive dribbling early in the clock, heaving up low percentage shots of his own, or putting teammates in awkward spots with little time left. Only Singler's running without the ball. In my experience, at my level of play, players run when they know there's a decent chance of getting a pass and cut back on running when they can't expect a pass. Maybe that's human nature. In any case, it's not a tendency that magically disappears at the NBA level. I gather that Cheeks is working hard with Jennings on this issue, even if the results aren't there yet.
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In the "Please take your own advice" column...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:24 am

You can’t cheat time,” said Billups, who scored two points in the 112-84 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies. “Experience is the best teacher. We don’t have a lot guys who have won here. You just don’t wake up and just because you get better personnel you think you are going to automatically win. It’s a process that you have to go through. I think we can cut that time in the way that work and the way that we focus, or not. Time is all that can do to help us. You look at a lot of the games that we lost and how we lost them thus far. We can’t continue to let that happen. That’s what lets you know if you’re learning fast enough or not.” - Chauncey Billups: Experience, not just talent, will lead to better days

You're right Chauncey, you can't cheat time, and it's time to coach my friend!
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Don & Wise

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:20 am

I learned from a great boss when I first became a manager of a small group.

He told me that I'll go far if I understand one thing!

There are no bad people, just bad managers!

He didn't mean that there are no bad employees, what he meant was that it was my job to get the best out of whoever I had, and that in achieving that mission, that I'll be surprised at the results!

In my experience that has always been true, but everyone is a product of their collective experiences, and I'm not here to tell you that yours are wrong, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Having said that, I just can't see how a team that makes absolutely no adjustments can be considered coached, let alone be badly coached!

IMO, Cheeks is an invisible man, an empty suit!

By this time with Larry Brown, this team would be one of the most feared in the NBA, the talent level in the frontcourt is that imposing, and the starting guard play is decent!

I will say that although Jennings assists are great, there is a big difference between assists and playmaking!

Jennings is not really playmaking, but again, that assumes there are plays to make, and again, that goes to coaching! Even so, I would still like to see Siva get more PT. I mean, how much worse could we lose?
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coolbreeze I'm With You

Post  WTF on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:11 am

While I believe Cheeks might have a little to do with the state of this team 20% I'm incline to believe that 80% of it is a blend of the players. It is so obvious that it's a bad blend and really no matter how Cheeks mix or rotate these players it will result in to the same things. The roster needs to be fixed or this team won't be an 8th seed in the playoffs.

Joe kiss your ass Goodbye!
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The Pistons are so boring I have not watched the last two games

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:39 am

I will get around to it eventually but right now I'm not in no rush. I can't remember the last time I did not give two DUMPS about If the Pistons played or not.

OK, let me pop on league pass. I'm about to watch.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:38 pm

Oracle wrote:With that much time off and all of that practice, if you can't prepare your team any better than that, I'm at a loss for words!

However, I do have an observation!

IMO, the starting unit doesn't appear to be the problem, it's actually bench production that we're missing!

Chauncey is 100% useless, and Bynum is almost as bad!

Why in the world with these guys being so useless is CV,JJ, Mitchel & Siva not given a shot is beyond me, but it's a coaches decision!

This is officially getting very ugly, and IMO, Cheeks is clueless as to how to fix it!

But it's NOT the starting unit that's the problem!!!

Oracle why not try starting another group of players maybe inserting Jerebco in the starting lineup at power forward and Moose at center? CV has looked so horrible lately when he was allowed to play, I can't see giving him any additional chances. The basic problem with this team in case you can't guess is that few players can defend at all. CV is the worst of all Piston defenders so there is no way a coach would want to become an ever weaker defensive team. Mitchell is not ready mentally to play NBA basketball based on what I have seen of him. But I agree with you on Siva. What in hell do the Pistons have to lose now. Bring Siva back and let him make the mistakes. He does play much better defense than Bynum or Jennings and is a better play maker if given enough experience on the court. But the smartest person on the planet could not make this team look good. Joe Dumars has no business signing any additional players to wear the Piston uniform. He needs to retire before the trade deadline. My bet is that the Owners are thinking the same thing right now. How many more home losses will the owners allow before they wise up????



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Do the basic problems center around coach Cheeks or the players? This is getting pretty funny. You Piston fans actually believe that this group of players can win with another coach? It can't be the blend of players Joe Dumars signed could it?

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:26 pm

This is playing out like a broken record. How many times have fans said this about previous coaches. Do you believe what Charlie V said two years ago. " Our losing has nothing to do with our talent". That is what you must believe but you are dead wrong. No coach can make this team successful. Today Memphis played the game without Gasol and Tony Allen. Prince looked so much better than Smith playing smarter and moving without the ball and defending. Smith didn't give an honest effort in this game. He should have been benched. I was watching closely when Memphis made their big run in the 3rd quarter. Nobody moved on offense. The 2 guard was standing and Smith playing the 3 was standing. Jennings was closely guarded. But he still forced too many shots. What did he shoot for the game. Wasn't he around 2 for 16? And Bynum was a one man show again. Nobody touched the basketball except Drummond when Bynum had control of the point guard position. Did the players leave their brains at home? No I believe no coaching staff can impact this team in a meaningful way. There are too many players who are fundamentally unsound and the player's basketball IQ is so low that it is exceptional that they made it to the NBA and actually have a career in basketball. Monroe actually had one of his better games. But both Drummond and Monroe can't get it in their heads that they cannot allow the player they are assigned to on defense get post up position 3 feet from the basket. That is just lazy stupid decision making and no coach can help a player who cannot think on the basketball court.

It is time for a fresh set of eyes in the front office. Dumars created an impossible situation especially with his picks for the guard positions. They are horrible on both ends as a group. The Memphis point guard kicked the Pistons asses. Prince kicked the Pistons asses. All of the big men on Memphis kicked our big men's asses. None of that involved coaching. i would start Jerebco at power forward and Singler at small forward and see what happens. Then bring up Siva from the D League and try to buy Solomon Hill's contract from Indiana. This idea of having Drummond, Monroe and Smith play together is insane. Playing Billups and Bynum is insane. Playing Bynum and Jennings together is insane. But what can the coach do but maybe play KCP for every minute of every game to hope that by next season he will be a better player.

The real truth is that all of the NBA teams now have a game plan that can beat the Pistons. Some will say that a healthy Stuckey is all we need. That is bull. We need big men who can defend. We need guards who can defend, make plays and help make the other players better on offense. THE DETROIT PISTONS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT PLAYERS. NOBODY WANTS TO WATCH THEM PLAY ANY MORE GAMES. DUMARS HAS TO GO!!!

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Cheeks

Post  Sparma on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:48 pm

Good post, Oracle.

Oddly, I've had the reverse impression of one of your statements ("Cheeks is not a bad coach, but he's not the right coach for this team!"). Up to this point, I've been thinking Cheeks is not a good coach (maybe not a bad coach!), but that's maybe he's the right coach for the team (eg with Stuckey).

I'm not letting Jennings off of the hook for 4th quarter collapses, but you make a great point about the responsibility of the coach for adjustments.
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The Tooth Hurts...

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:32 pm

Out of the mouth of Brandon "The Tooth" Jennings, comes the truth that I and others have been saying... it's the coach!

In a great interview, and a veiled but stunning indictment of the coach, Jennings lays out the problem, and because his solution leaves out the coach, IMO, the players are losing faith in Cheeks. Before I continue, let me say a few words about Cheeks!

The Cheeks Situation:
Cheeks is not a bad coach, but he's not the right coach for this team!

All of the things that made him a great PG, are the same things that makes him a poor match for these guys.

Cheeks wasn't a leader on those great Philly teams, but he was the orchestrator! His calm unflappable demeanor, composed under pressure showing little or no emotion was perfect then!

Unfortunately, this team needs a LEADER, and they don't have one on the floor or on the bench! They need a leader that brings fire, and Cheeks is designed to suppress fire! The sad thing is that we're in too deep, and I don't know what to do about Cheeks!

The Article(Brandon Jennings' frustration evident over Detroit Pistons' meltdowns: 'It's slipping away'):

"They weren't letting Greg get the easy posts like they were in the first half," Jennings said.  "But that's always happening.  Teams make adjustments.  Teams are not going to let us just keep going in the post, so myself, KCP (Kentavious Caldwell-Pope), we've all got to be ready to knock down shots." - Jennings

I respect that Jennings is trying to take responsibility, but what do you do when your shots are not falling? But he's right, Teams make adjustments, so why aren't the Pistons making adjustments?

I've said this a million times about Cheeks, and there's absolutely no signs of improvement!

"I feel like when teams start punching on us in the second half, we kind of shy away from that as a collective unit," - Jennings

Again, he's partially right, but in order to be successful, somebody that's NOT in the game(read coaching) needs to be able to see the adjustments that the team needs to make!

They can't be on an island all by themselves, which is where they are right now!

I don't want to totally let the players off of the hook, but this level of dysfunction goes beyond anything you can completely pin on players, unless you focus on the lack of leadership of the most senior Pistons!

The Players:
IMO, Jennings is doing all we need him to do, but is getting very little support!

Moose is up and down, but doing ok! With Moose we really need to have him play against 2nd unit centers, which would immediately boost the starting unit's defense!

Smith is the most obvious target for the lack of leadership tag, but anybody expecting him to assume that role, hasn't watched him since he came into the league!

But we can't let Sheed off the hook! For the size of that front line, it's amazing how easily teams attack the rim with impunity!

But defensively, it's not just the bigs, and they really do need to tighten up the "D", but again, if they never score, the defense will eventually collapse anyway!

The Bottom Line:
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Grizzlies 112, Pistons 84

Post  Sebastian on Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:20 pm

Wait a damn minute. Another, home loss and this "L" comes after not playing since Monday night. Outscored 28-11 in the 3rd and 31-17 in the 4th to the Memphis f#ckin' Grizzlies.

OUR guys have been off, nearly a full week with a chance to get in valuable practice time, followed with a matinee home game and WE lose by 28 to the Memphis Grizzlies.

Something has to change and it has got to be quick!

C'mon Mo', Joe, Josh, Jennings, Moose, Dre, Chauncey!

And another thing: How "sore" is Stuckey's shoulder? Either, he is hurt or he is not. Why not put him on the IR, if he is unable to play?

Something is up ...
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Me too...

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:33 pm

Sparma wrote:Good thing we have the game to distract us!  Were you able to watch, Oracle?

Just based on the boxscore, it looks like Cheeks would have been wise to make a significant adjustment.  I still like Monroe to the bench, based in part on the figures someone posted at PP about the productivity of various combos, with AD & Smith doing best together.

I still like him to the bench, but the starting unit isn't the problem, which goes to the discussion I had with Merc this morning!

It's not that we miss Stuckey, it's that we aren't getting anything from the bench anymore, and Cheeks is so focused on the starting 5 that he's doing nothing where the real problem lies!
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Back to the games

Post  Sparma on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:29 pm

Good thing we have the game to distract us! Were you able to watch, Oracle?

Just based on the boxscore, it looks like Cheeks would have been wise to make a significant adjustment. I still like Monroe to the bench, based in part on the figures someone posted at PP about the productivity of various combos, with AD & Smith doing best together.
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Re: FORUM

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