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Sorry, I'll take the army of Lions every time!

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:59 pm

cool breeze wrote:The statement above was used by many soldiers and military experts who have studied British and French generals who made decisions in WW1. Does this apply to our upper management group? For those unfortunate soldiers who had to go into battle with such leaders they referred to their generals this way. We are soldiers lead by donkeys.

Because I know when the real fighting comes, they'll remember who they are, and dinner will be served  lol
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An army of sheep lead by a lion can defeat a army of lions lead by a sheep

Post  cool breeze on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:30 am

The statement above was used by many soldiers and military experts who have studied British and French generals who made decisions in WW1. Does this apply to our upper management group? For those unfortunate soldiers who had to go into battle with such leaders they referred to their generals this way. We are soldiers lead by donkeys.

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Vincent Goodwill's article today offered some insight

Post  cool breeze on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:15 am

Suddenly it is ok to start talking about Pistons failure to be able to defend. But why were those questions not asked by reporters last summer when Joe Dumars put this group of players together? It seems clear to me that finally it is ok for reporters to start talking about Joe's players. Before when Detroit gave up 114 points in games only minor attention was directed towards the players inability to play defense. Now this is the glaring issue. But some of the articles are getting better including this one today where Jennings says some meaningful things about his team. I liked what he said about what Billups was saying in the locker room earlier in the season. This is a situation where no thought at all has gone into creating a team based on who the men are and what they are capable of offering to a team. The subject of accountability is coming up more and more. But the basic problem is who the players were before they became Piston players. Could any of those players with the exception of maybe 3 players on the entire team play defense well or understand the full concept of accountability? It was clear to me before Dumars signed this group that it just wouldn't work. But why in hell didn't Dumars or his brain trust know that? Who are these people  that advise Joe Dumars? That might be the real problem with this organization. Dumars is a figure head like many CEOs of large companies. They depend on advisors. John Hammond left the Pistons and look at what has happened since. I don't know if Hammond was good at his job either but it is clear that the people on Dumars staff are not good basketball people. Is Joe now saying what Dr. Evil said in those Austin Powers movies "why am I surrounded by i-d-i-o-t-s? Maybe is is as simple as this. Mr. Gores and Joe Dumars get together inviting some of the current players over to Joe's house to shoot some pool. Will Bynum and Stuckey come over and they have a few drinks. Joe says to Gores, that Will sure is a nice guy how about we give him a two year contract for around 6 mil? Sounds good Joe. Maybe there is no discussion about who will be able to play defense at all. 

The good thing that is finally coming out now is a full awareness of the real issues surrounding this team. And the cause of the issues are the players themselves. So it does have something to do with lack of talent which Charlie V has denied for so long. You have to have talent and be smart to ever become a good defensive player. Our players lack the brains and the talent to ever become good defenders and no coach can make them any better because that is something you need to do on your own. But the real problem has to be the owner, Joe Dumars and his entire staff who made all the decisons relating to the selection of the current players on this team.

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Knight, Jennings, Burke, MCW

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:58 am

Oracle wrote:I hope everyone that was so happy to see BK7 traded for Jennings has seen the light. No, Knight was not a great PG today, but he was a good player who could either learn the role or be a great 6th man. Jennings is dog s.h.i.t!

I see that some posters keep bringing up drafting Burke, but Burke was obviously NOT the right pick for this team.

My reason for not wanting Burke was size related, as I saw him and MCW as roughly equally great PG's, with Burke having a slight edge in skill, but MCW's size making him the logical choice.

Fast forward to this year, and it's clear that MCW is by far the better pro, and if you really follow Burke, he's been good, but not that good, and not really in the conversation for ROY, IMO!

I still believe that a backcourt of MCW & Knight, with Knight the off guard(SG) on offense, and moving to PG on defense would have been a dynamic backcourt!

Definitely a bad move trading Knight and Middleton for Jennings, but I still would likely be one wanting to trade Knight. As for Burke he's still my choice over MCW though I wouldn't have mind either one running this team.
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Rest In Peace Mr. Ford

Post  WTF on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:53 am

Message to team, Go win it all for your owner!

You have the pieces and a coach that thinks you're ready to it all now and all the fans know your a lot better than you play and that the talent is there. So prove us right for a change and win it all for Mr. Ford GO LIONS
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Good Post Oracle.

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:08 am

This team has no BALLS! No respect for the team or each other. It's time for this season to end!!
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Knight, Jennings, Burke, MCW

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:57 am

I hope everyone that was so happy to see BK7 traded for Jennings has seen the light. No, Knight was not a great PG today, but he was a good player who could either learn the role or be a great 6th man. Jennings is dog s.h.i.t!

I see that some posters keep bringing up drafting Burke, but Burke was obviously NOT the right pick for this team.

My reason for not wanting Burke was size related, as I saw him and MCW as roughly equally great PG's, with Burke having a slight edge in skill, but MCW's size making him the logical choice.

Fast forward to this year, and it's clear that MCW is by far the better pro, and if you really follow Burke, he's been good, but not that good, and not really in the conversation for ROY, IMO!

I still believe that a backcourt of MCW & Knight, with Knight the off guard(SG) on offense, and moving to PG on defense would have been a dynamic backcourt!
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Smelly Stuff

Post  Oracle on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:44 am

What's wrong?

Guard Play sucks to high heaven! Jennings is a good to great playmaker on the fast break, but can only pass the ball in the half court, and not effectively at that! Bynum is the better half court playmaker, but he's horrible at almost everything else.

We have a PF playing SF, a Center playing PF, a SF playing SG, and we're loosely coached... any questions?

But the biggest problem is this!

We have no defense!

We have no offense!

We have no heart, and...

We have no pride!

I'm glad they're losing, but holy crap, can they at least go down fighting like last years team?

In this weak conference, last years team would have surely made the playoffs, I have no doubt about it!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:45 pm

MOOSEFAN wrote:No! Neither Zeke or Lamb would sit Josh Smith nor any other sane coach in the league and that includes the likes of Riley, Pop, LB or Jackson.  What wouldn't be happening is the number of perimeter shots he takes while being played out of position at the rate he has.  It one thing to play Josh sparingly at SF it's another thing when you do it almost exclusively.  

There's nothing wrong with the way Josh plays, he hustle, he defends and he stats shows that more times than not.  Now on your point about Bynum and the rest of the guards you can rest assure that none would be getting playing time under anyone of the above mention.  If we had anyone of the above coaches they'll likely play Siva before Bynum, I could see LB being so frustrated that Singler and Josh would be bring the ball up court before any of the idiots we have.  

Moosefan I sure don't hate Smith at all. Dumars has set Smith up for failure by promising him that if he signed with Detroit he could get his wish to play small forward. Smith doesn't like playing power forward. So if you are Cheeks and tell Smith that he can't cut it playing small forward because he can't guard many opponents at that position and he doesn't have the skills required on the offensive end, you offend Smith. Smith doesn't say I know that right now I might suck at that position but I am willing to work my butt off to get better to prove to you that I can play that position. Instead perhaps Smith goes to Dumars for support. Joe talks to Cheeks who tells Joe to eat a big pile of crap and get out of my office. Joe is an expert at playing politics so he never gets any of the blame. Then Bynum has a run in with Cheeks during a game and Joe loves Will Bynum almost as much as Stuckey. So what did Joe tell Mr. Gores before the firing occurred? It is fun making stuff up but isn't it fun and perhaps some of it is true. My problem with Smith has always been the fact that he doesn't take playing the game of basketball very serious. After all he came in out of high school and was adored for being so young and gifted. Smith is not interested in getting any better and doesn't like it when a coach points out a truth about his play. Stuckey is another player on the same team who isn't very interested in his profession or the Piston organization. He would rather play out West but his agent got so much money for him in his last contract that he couldn't pass it up. The problem with Dumars is the fact that he has no respect for Piston fans. Otherwise he would have identified players that he has signed as players few fans really care about. Fans buy tickets to watch players they respect and adore as great athletes. But maybe some professional writers will not blame Dumars and will instead blame Karen Davidson. That idea of placing the blame on her is insane I am sure that she told Joe to do whatever he thought was best for the organization. 

I like the idea of having Singler bring the ball up court after a make or miss. But Singler would pass the ball and then once he released the basketball to another player, then that players will just jack up a shot. Smith could also play point guard better than Jennings or Bynum. But I like the idea of having Singler at the top of the key to create plays. But I would also like to see Siva back in action. He can play defense better than either Jennings or Bynum and he is a pass first guard. He looked horrible early in the season but perhaps he might be ready now. 

The owner needs to do something pretty soon to keep some interest for next season. As it stands now. Bynum and Jennings will be running the the team again and that is not a good thing for season ticket sales. Trade Monroe and Stuckey if possible and release Bynum as early as possible. Interest will sore especially if Detroit can keep the draft pick. New management and a new coach along with different players would be so great.

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Could things be any worse now if....

Post  deusXango on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:25 pm

Joe had drafted Trey Burke?
Joe hadn't resigned Will Bynum?
Joe hadn't brought Chauncey Billups back?
Joe had traded for Rajon Rondo when his market value was at it's lowest? (The Arnie Kander Factor)
Joe hadn't traded for Brandon Jennings?
All these inquiries are about our guards, which are f#cked up!!! No size. No defense. No brains. No leadership on the floor. Nothing competitive in the backcourt.
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Welcome to the Pistons' alternate universe

Post  Fennis Dembo on Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:44 pm

Something is totally out of whack when you have three players with double doubles and you don't win.  Loyer, Dumars, and Gores must be feeling as frustrated as the fans are. This team is lost in space. Danger, Will Bynum, danger.

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Holla! Fat Boy

Post  WTF on Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:12 pm

Personally I don't care how it happens as long as Joe is gone.  I have much much respect for Joe the player always have and always will, but as the GM and President of the team I would/could have strung him up or walking the plank for everything he's done since drafting Darko even in the midst of winning it all that year.   It's been all down hill since, a lot of folks mainly all the apologist for Joe just don't really grasp what we really lost in not taking Carmelo.  

He should be ran out of the Palace as if he was Frankenstein Monster by an angry mob out to kill the monster.  I can't even remember the brains behind the Teal Years but not even then had I felt the sickness in my stomach and the eagerness to **** it out like I do now in waiting to lose this Turd GM at season end.    Riddance Fat Boy!


Last edited by MOOSEFAN on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Don Hates Josh As Much As I Hate Moose!

Post  WTF on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:03 pm

No! Neither Zeke or Lamb would sit Josh Smith nor any other sane coach in the league and that includes the likes of Riley, Pop, LB or Jackson. What wouldn't be happening is the number of perimeter shots he takes while being played out of position at the rate he has. It one thing to play Josh sparingly at SF it's another thing when you do it almost exclusively.

There's nothing wrong with the way Josh plays, he hustle, he defends and he stats shows that more times than not. Now on your point about Bynum and the rest of the guards you can rest assure that none would be getting playing time under anyone of the above mention. If we had anyone of the above coaches they'll likely play Siva before Bynum, I could see LB being so frustrated that Singler and Josh would be bring the ball up court before any of the idiots we have.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:40 pm

deusXango wrote:"When Tom Gores bought the team in 2011, he chose to retain Dumars and wanted Lawrence Frank as head coach.  The relationship between Dumars and Frank deteriorated for several reasons, none bigger than the lack of effort to trade Rodney Stuckey after the 2011-12 lockout season. Frank was hired to clean out the locker room and multiple sources have said he considered Stuckey the one player he wanted moved more than any other.  Dumars didn't see it that way.  Their relationship broke down.  Ultimately, it became a you-or-me situation."-David Mayo

First let me say this, Joe does deserve to be allowed to leave with the dignity & respect accorded to any franchise legend...his life's work has been dedicated to the Detroit Pistons. The sad fact is, his time has passed and all considerations for past heroics have been exhausted.

Anyone who's read this forum know I've not been a fan of Lil' Larry's (for a number of reasons), but in the context of the reason he was brought in by the owner, I must give the man credit that I previously didn't. Rodney Stuckey wasn't all that and Lil' Larry could see it; he did something that a Kobe, LeBron, or Garnett would have caught endless flack for when he refused to re-enter a game on a night that a Pistons legend was being honored! All the dignitaries were out that night when he showed his ass like he was a mega superstar...why would an owner want a player like that on his payroll? Gores hired a "hit man", but Joe stayed his hand, forgetting that Gores was paying all of them. There's no telling how many ways Joe backed Lil' Larry into a corner in his protection of Rodney Stuckey.

Let's examine the demonstrated qualifications of Joe Dumars assessment of talent. Darko over the "you know who's." Mateen Cleaves over Morris Peterson. Rodney White over Joe Johnson. The passing on an insane number of excellent PG's, because we had Rodney Stuckey (traditional PG's have had their day). Last, but not the least, KCP over Trey Burke/Michael Carter-Williams at a time we desperately needed a PG and team leader. These are just the draft picks. The "giveaways" are the stuff of madness; Afflalo, Johnson, McDyess, BK7, Middleton, Okur, Williamson, that kid from Arizona (I forget his name right now). Players from back in the day to today!!! Now comes the jewel in his crown...Rodney Stuckey! By all indications, Stuckey is the best, most talented player Joe has ever laid eyes on. PG? Failed! SG? Failed! SF? Failed! Stuckey was given a chance to start at all those positions, at Joe's urgings, by a legion of coaches, but it was only this year that he found his nitch as a ball hog off the bench. Seven years of passing on, or giving away valuable assets for a bench player?! Joe, Joe, Joe. I wonder what Lil' Larry could have done with this team, without Joe's interference, minus Rodney Stuckey? I got the feeling Moose would've been gone by the trade deadline if the "little man" was still here and had his way...I believe we would be playing at least .500 ball or better.


dX this is really good. How could any GM get that attached to a guy like Stuckey? The Arizona guy is Chase Budinger. I only bring that up because Dumars also tried hard to protect another player named Austin Daye. The tactic used by Joe is to get rid of any competition that could result in less playing time for Stuckey as you pointed out or Stuckey. Maybe we could throw out Hunter or Maxiell as well as being under the protection of their Mother Joe. I forgot about that incident when Stuckey refused to play in that game. 

So it appears that you have answered my question about who made the call on the Cheeks firing. Joe's guy Will Bynum with the new two year contract was sent to the bench and spouted off to the coach before the fans. That should get the attention of any GM to stand behind his new coach and find a way to move that player.  Joe might have wanted Cheeks to coach the team believing that he would go along with the players that Joe wanted out on the court during the games. Maybe some of the players did contact Gores but it makes more sense to go through the GM relating to player relations with the coach. Maybe Gores did want Cheeks fired but did Joe stand up for the coach at all? Maybe ESPN could do some undercover work and give us the truth. 

I agree with you regarding Frank possibly still being the coach if he had been able to rid himself of some of Joe's players. He did sit both Bynum and Stuckey last season. Again the coach does the logical thing and gets fired. His starting power forward for God's sake was Jason Maxiell, We fans pointed out last year how impossible it would be to judge any point guard when you have a pint sized power forward with next to no offensive skills in the starting lineup. 

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Does anyone really know the entire truth about what went down when Cheeks was fired?

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:09 pm

Who broke the news to Mo Cheeks when he was fired? Did Joe Dumars stand up for Mo? Obviously Mr. Gores made the decision but what transpired between Dumars and Gores? Will we ever know? This stuff is much more exciting than watching many of these unlikeable Piston players. If only we still had Knight and Middleton to pull for instead of Jennings, Bynum and Stuckey. Who was behind that trade again? Was it Dumars or Gores? Most people believe that Cheeks was Dumars choice as head coach but can we be sure of that as well? Nothing is really clear it seems with this ball club as to who is in charge. And our newspaper reporters are not curious or attempting to clear things up for us either. I thought that Cheeks would do a good job given more functional players and more time. He is a players coach and doesn't get all worked up jumping around like a lot of big ego attention seeking coaches. He is soft spoken but firm with the players. I liked the fact that he addressed Smith's well known moody disposition and unpreditable game preparation and effort. Cheeks was a no nonsense type of person who would just place a player on the bench whoever that player might be rather than confront the player. Josh looked like he wanted to be on the bench considering the effort he made at the time he was benched. 

But was it Smith's crying for his Mother's milk or Bynum that got Cheeks fired? There was that heated display by Bynum when he decided that he shouldn't go to the bench after screwing up. He challenged Cheeks authority in front of fans and other players like Drummond. And remember that Bynum did this after he went on that brown nosing campaign during the summer league play where he informed everyone that he will have a strong bond with cheeks because of many reasons including that they were both from chicago. I liked Cheeks post game interviews where he seemed to always say that his players lost because the other team always got the 50-50 balls. That is a direct insult to the players meaning the opposing players played with more purpose and effort. Fans can argue over tactics or player rotations but I would be honored to play for a guy like Cheeks. All you have to do with a guy like Cheeks is do your damn job the right way. 

I have to ask this question and maybe some of you can respond. IF EITHER LAIMBEER OR ZEKE HAD BEEN HIRED INSTEAD OF CHEEKS, WOULD EITHER OF THOSE MEN NOT HAVE SENT SMITH TO THE BENCH AFTER SEEING THE SAME THINGS AS CHEEKS? WOULD EITHER LAIMBEER OR THOMAS CONTINUE TO PLAY WILL BYNUM AT THE MOMENT BYNUM WAS INSULTED FOR BEING TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME BY CHEEKS? My answer is that for sure neither of those men would have given Bynum much of any playing time after watching him in the pre season and over several seasons that he has played ball in Detroit. Would Gores listen to players complaints about their coach if either of those highly respected former Piston players had been sitting on the bench? I believe that Zeke and Laimbeer would have laughed at Bynum. 

The firing of Cheeks is a symbol of lack of leadership by upper management be it Gores or Dumars. The GM should have a code of conduct in place and should advise the players that their coach is their boss and no sneaking behind the shadows would be tolerated if they want to keep those pay checks coming. Didn't either Gores or Dumars observe how certain players had been performing? Does the owner believe that his guards are not dysfunctional players with many defects and Smith had his troubles in Atlanta? Was Drummond involved in this firing? Was he asked to stand up for Will Bynum the guy who gets him a lob pass now and then? Cheeks had seen enough of Will Bynum and his circus act. And I believe cheeks figured things out in training camp because he really wanted Siva to succeed and gave him a lot of opportunities. Siva clearly not ready at the time but maybe he now would fit this team's needs now better than Bynum. It is clear that the biggest change that has happened since Cheeks was fired involves Will Bynum. He is now a crunch time player and a key player on the team. Bynum still plays the same way. Nothing has changed that I can see in his game. It doesn't matter how he runs the offense. Will Bynum will get his fair share of playing time. Did Joe Dumars disagree with the way Cheeks handled Bynum? Joe signed Will but I cannot believe that Dumars would approve of Will's defense or the way he runs a team on offense. Jennings sure was learning a lot from Cheeks and was very upset when he was fired. Was Jennings the only player who felt that way? Coaches get fired and life moves on but I feel there is a cloud hanging over this team as a result of this firing. Two players didn't like Cheeks approach to their benching and their benching was not some knee jerk thing. Cheeks did the right thing and got fired for it. It appears that upper management has created a real mess. Reports were advising that Dumars was really trying to move Smith before the trade deadline. Did he want to move him or was it Gores who realized that he made a huge mistake in firing Cheeks to soon. Who is the puppet master hiding behind Loyer deciding who plays now?

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The lesson of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde...there's two sides of man

Post  deusXango on Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:33 pm

"When Tom Gores bought the team in 2011, he chose to retain Dumars and wanted Lawrence Frank as head coach.  The relationship between Dumars and Frank deteriorated for several reasons, none bigger than the lack of effort to trade Rodney Stuckey after the 2011-12 lockout season. Frank was hired to clean out the locker room and multiple sources have said he considered Stuckey the one player he wanted moved more than any other.  Dumars didn't see it that way.  Their relationship broke down.  Ultimately, it became a you-or-me situation."-David Mayo

First let me say this, Joe does deserve to be allowed to leave with the dignity & respect accorded to any franchise legend...his life's work has been dedicated to the Detroit Pistons. The sad fact is, his time has passed and all considerations for past heroics have been exhausted.

Anyone who's read this forum know I've not been a fan of Lil' Larry's (for a number of reasons), but in the context of the reason he was brought in by the owner, I must give the man credit that I previously didn't. Rodney Stuckey wasn't all that and Lil' Larry could see it; he did something that a Kobe, LeBron, or Garnett would have caught endless flack for when he refused to re-enter a game on a night that a Pistons legend was being honored! All the dignitaries were out that night when he showed his ass like he was a mega superstar...why would an owner want a player like that on his payroll? Gores hired a "hit man", but Joe stayed his hand, forgetting that Gores was paying all of them. There's no telling how many ways Joe backed Lil' Larry into a corner in his protection of Rodney Stuckey.

Let's examine the demonstrated qualifications of Joe Dumars assessment of talent. Darko over the "you know who's." Mateen Cleaves over Morris Peterson. Rodney White over Joe Johnson. The passing on an insane number of excellent PG's, because we had Rodney Stuckey (traditional PG's have had their day). Last, but not the least, KCP over Trey Burke/Michael Carter-Williams at a time we desperately needed a PG and team leader. These are just the draft picks. The "giveaways" are the stuff of madness; Afflalo, Johnson, McDyess, BK7, Middleton, Okur, Williamson, that kid from Arizona (I forget his name right now). Players from back in the day to today!!! Now comes the jewel in his crown...Rodney Stuckey! By all indications, Stuckey is the best, most talented player Joe has ever laid eyes on. PG? Failed! SG? Failed! SF? Failed! Stuckey was given a chance to start at all those positions, at Joe's urgings, by a legion of coaches, but it was only this year that he found his nitch as a ball hog off the bench. Seven years of passing on, or giving away valuable assets for a bench player?! Joe, Joe, Joe. I wonder what Lil' Larry could have done with this team, without Joe's interference, minus Rodney Stuckey? I got the feeling Moose would've been gone by the trade deadline if the "little man" was still here and had his way...I believe we would be playing at least .500 ball or better.
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Self Inflicted Woes

Post  WTF on Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:54 am

I would have to say that Moose offensive and defensive woes are self inflicted and that his game is the least affected by the team poor PG play. His lack of movement and activity on both ends is almost the biggest culprits of his inconsistencies from game to game.

The only players that I can say are truly hurt by the poor play of the team PG's are both Josh and Andre often they're making poor decisions in where and how they're getting these 2 the ball. If I had to guess Josh consistently gets the ball late in the shot clock and deep on the perimeter 30-40 percent of the time which is resulting in the poor FG he's shooting. Andre should be easy pickings for points in the paint even with a limited post game but they seem to think they can toss any bullshit pass into the post and he'll dunk it home.

Moose is a victim of his own doing, he gets the ball 75 percent of the time 10 feet out usually wide open and refuses to put up that mid-range shot. He immediately puts it the floor and drives into the opposing defense like a cupcake.
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I perfer to see the Pistons make the playoffs but A top 8 pick would be good to

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:45 am

The Pistons suck this year. It's time for A change all the way around from GM to players on the floor.

I don't mind A playoff sweep but I would be OK with A lottery pick as well. The Piston look bad on both outcomes!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:03 am

deusXango wrote:
MOOSEFAN wrote:Then lets beat a dead moose instead.  

Here's something that cross my mind and could put us in position for that a top three pick even if we lose out on our own pick this summer and that is trading Moose.  How about a potential sign and trade with LA that would include their pick?  Would LA be interested in acquiring Moose to go alone with potentially Carmelo and Kobe.   LA may have a couple of pieces that might fit our needs.  

I know I'm trading Moose every other day  Smile but this team needs balance and no matter how much they may try Moose and Drummond simply don't fit or won't fit even if we fixed everything else around them from upgrading our PG to obtaining some real outside shooters the pairing of these 2 hurts more than it helps.    
Wise, I don't think L.A. wants Carmelo as much as they would like to have Kevin Love...Love and Monroe would be a strong enough frontline to compliment Kobe's diminishing skills, and Monroe will come cheaper than 'Melo. Long story short, I'd love to trade Moose for L.A.'s first round pick!! If all goes as hoped for (by many) and we end up with two lottery picks, and a new GM to build around Drummond, we'll have seen the last of the dark days.

I don't think a real GM, like Jerry West, would have half the players we now have on our roster.
I like this idea. And you are right on relating to Jerry West's evaluation of this group of rejects. It is still difficult for me to evaluate the potential of Greg Monroe due to the inferior guards on this Piston team. Greg sure looks bad on defense a lot of the time with this team. I would worry about his defense if I were a GM looking to plug him in on my team. But Gasol might look worse than Monroe if he played for Detroit this year. 

Will Joe give an extension on Bynum's contract to lock him in after the end of next season? Is Bynum Joe's man or Gores man? Some say that Gores was behind signing Bynum.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:48 am

deusXango wrote:Don, it's beginning to look bad for Arizona...beaten by the Ducks? Now that'd be an upset I didn't see coming.

dX I expected this loss. First off Oregon is playing really well right now while fighting for a NCAA tournament bid and they are really hard to beat on their home floor at any time. Arizona got beat up pretty bad in the Oregon State game earlier in the week by  some older really tough physical big men. Arizona had adjusted to losing Brandon Ashley the Wildcats starting power forward who had surgery a few weeks ago. But Arizona's two freshmen, Gordon and Jefferson were really sore from the pounding they took on Wednesday. Gordon and Jefferson both play 3 different positions at times which is incredible given how hard they play on the defensive end. Cutting down the nets after winning the PAC12 Championship last week at home also had an impact with both away games this week. Gordon had 3 straight incredible games on both offense and defense before this Oregon road trip to secure the title. I could see that he was not himself in the Oregon State game which is the first time I could see this guy show any sign of fatigue. I am out of town today and haven't had a chance to see this game yet. Now I won't be too excited to watch it. 

i know everyone in the Mid West believes that the Big Ten is the toughest conference in the country but this year I disagree. I have my doubt that any Big Ten team could pull off a sweep traveling for 2 games in one week against the Oregon schools or the worst of all road trip playing at Utah and Colorado in the higher altitude. Arizona somehow did pull off a sweep of those two schools. Playing at UCLA, Stanford and Washington is very difficult as well. I didn't have any idea until I moved out West from Michigan just how difficult it is to play at those locations. 

Whatever happens in the NCAA tournament or the PAC12 tournament next week for Arizona, this team is by far the most fun college team that I have ever watched play and I have been around for awhile.  I attended all the home games and never did I see a player take a possession off on the defensive end. This group of players are the direct opposite of many of our current Piston players. The dedication, determination, court awareness, and intensity is a breath of fresh air to me after having watched so many disturbing Piston games this year. This is all the doing of Sean Miller the Arizona coach and his ability to find the right type of players and then to get everyone to guy into the team concept. Much of the credit should go to Nick Johnson who is a real leader that doesn't come along very often. If only Nick Johnson could somehow end up playing for the Pistons. Nick is going to be a great pro. He made his mark as a freshman on the defensive end becoming an elite defender. Last week he defended a big 6 foot 10 power forward and shut him down with 4 points and 1 rebound. But he now can play 3 offensive positions and 3 defensive positions. The cool thing this year is that he has had a lot of minutes playing point guard. I expect that Johnson should win the MVP for the PAC 12 next week. He has the same mindset as his uncle, Dennis Johnson so if he did become a Piston then there would be a big change in the look of Detroit's defense. There are other college players out there like Johnson but I am sure that Joe Dumars is not interested in players like Nick. He might remind Joe of Affalo.

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Ugh, oh!

Post  deusXango on Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:10 pm

Don, it's beginning to look bad for Arizona...beaten by the Ducks? Now that'd be an upset I didn't see coming.
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Let's beat a dead Moose!

Post  deusXango on Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:56 pm

MOOSEFAN wrote:Then lets beat a dead moose instead.  

Here's something that cross my mind and could put us in position for that a top three pick even if we lose out on our own pick this summer and that is trading Moose.  How about a potential sign and trade with LA that would include their pick?  Would LA be interested in acquiring Moose to go alone with potentially Carmelo and Kobe.   LA may have a couple of pieces that might fit our needs.  

I know I'm trading Moose every other day  Smile but this team needs balance and no matter how much they may try Moose and Drummond simply don't fit or won't fit even if we fixed everything else around them from upgrading our PG to obtaining some real outside shooters the pairing of these 2 hurts more than it helps.    
Wise, I don't think L.A. wants Carmelo as much as they would like to have Kevin Love...Love and Monroe would be a strong enough frontline to compliment Kobe's diminishing skills, and Monroe will come cheaper than 'Melo. Long story short, I'd love to trade Moose for L.A.'s first round pick!! If all goes as hoped for (by many) and we end up with two lottery picks, and a new GM to build around Drummond, we'll have seen the last of the dark days.

I don't think a real GM, like Jerry West, would have half the players we now have on our roster.
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I Think LA Would Do This

Post  WTF on Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:20 pm

I mean what if we paired Gasol with Drummond and gave Josh another year to improve at SF. We a PF who can hit from outside and a first round pick. Gasol open up the lanes and post for Josh to do what he does best.

I know Gasol is on the tail end but could provide the immediate results this team needs oppose waiting on Moose to improve his mid-range game.

The only issue I would have with this is if Gasol has a player option and is not truly a free agent this summer. I have to look
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Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but...

Post  WTF on Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:12 pm

Then lets beat a dead moose instead.

Here's something that cross my mind and could put us in position for that a top three pick even if we lose out on our own pick this summer and that is trading Moose. How about a potential sign and trade with LA that would include their pick? Would LA be interested in acquiring Moose to go alone with potentially Carmelo and Kobe. LA may have a couple of pieces that might fit our needs.

I know I'm trading Moose every other day  Smile but this team needs balance and no matter how much they may try Moose and Drummond simply don't fit or won't fit even if we fixed everything else around them from upgrading our PG to obtaining some real outside shooters the pairing of these 2 hurts more than it helps.
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Draft

Post  deusXango on Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:06 pm

Sparma, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one on the Tyler Ennis bandwagon...IMHO that young man has the makings of a NBA star PG! Rodney Hood (along with other considerations) is the type of viable asset I was speaking of when I mentioned trading Smith and Jennings. This team can get better in a hurry, but it's sad to say, beyond Joe Dumars demonstrated capabilities.
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Re: FORUM

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