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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:13 pm

Oracle wrote:@PistonPete - You bring up important questions!

"Zone it up. I'm sure that could be a combat bandage to stop the bleeding. My question is where is Sheed. We know he has a mouth. In watching the games he sits stoically on the bench and watches the carnage. No rim protection, no effort from his boys. No words from Sheed. Of course we don't know what goes on in the locker room. Have they given up?"- Pete[/

It's obvious they can't do man defense yet, so in transition, they need to play standard zone, and if Mo knows how, use a modified zone the rest of the way. There are modified zones that are pretty close to man defense, but the point here is that we need to go zone[b](if for no other reason than to hide Monroe & Jennings)
 until they figure this out!


@DX - "I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now!" - DX


That's a legitimate disagreement, but the whiplash we're getting from your almost complete and total support of Monroe to this can only be matched by Phillip's going from Stuckey's #1 supporter to supporting his assignation Smile

@Seb - I have to agree with Don, Bennett looked good when the games didn't count, but now, who knows. Better to watch and see if he implodes in Cleveland!

@Don - "I have faith in this coaching staff over any other in a long time. I love Mo Cheeks and would have given anything to be able to play for him. He is no dummy." - Don

I have faith in them as well, but there's a difference in faith and reality, and the reality is that while Cheeks is indeed no dummy, he's slow to recognize and change.

The slow to change thing can be both good and bad, but the slow to recognize is just plain bad!

By no means when I criticize this coaching staff am I calling for a change, or have lost faith in them. I'm calling for them to react a lot more forcefully, and I believe beyond a doubt that after last night, they will!

However, as I said, the only hope is zoning right now, Monroe & Jennings aren't going to get better defensively overnight!
Oracle I imagine almost every fan who has played basketball at the high school level would be screaming for the coaches to introduce some type of match up zone. However, this is the NBA we are talking about where the speed of the game and outside shooting ability of NBA players can destroy a zone. But the biggest reason why most teams that try zones don't work is the inability of players to grasp how to play zone defense properly. Remember that coaches have to keep things simple for players who have never had to face up to their lack of knowledge and experience in ever really playing serious defense. Sometimes I just would appreciate that our Pistons get their legs bent. There is no easier defense to play from a mental perspective than man to man. However, our players can't get the switches down for that defense so how in hell can we expect them to be able to play zone defense. For sure at the high school level teams have to play zone defense when they field teams that have players with limited athletic ability. What separates the really good two way players in the NBA is their minds. If a player cannot anticipate things after getting beat 3 times, then there is something wrong mentally. It has nothing to do with the athletic ability. Some fans are now blaming players mistakes on the coaches which has been the trend for fans who have watched the Pistons play for several seasons. Coaches like Rasheed know that it is stupid to try to scream at players during a game or in a timeout. What Rasheed and coach Cheeks are seeing during the games is a basic lack of (WILL) by certain players relating to their not having the proper desire to get down and concentrate on what they have been taught. If you are a coach, this is the most frustrating thing you go through. Rasheed for instance can work his ass off on the practice court going over the same things hour after hour and day after day and then watch players like Monroe wonder out to the 3 point line to trap a guard leaving the paint wide open and his assigned man long gone under the basket for either an easy basket or a offensive rebound and put back. I have watched both Singler and Smith fly out to a wide open shooter when it is not their responsibility to do that. A screw up in the defensive rotation happened where players like Monroe decide to switch out to a guard when they should remain with their assigned player causing everyone to get lost in the defense. If the team decides to play zone to help with dribble penetration then you need to have smart and quick big men. One of the big problems is matching up to box out on the defensive boards while playing zone. Our guys are not even trying to box out while playing man to man. It goes back to the old saying about the NBA that you need to have the really good players who have the proper mindset to win in this league. The players have to want to be coached and they have to have the desire to improve. Monroe hasn't improved in his entire NBA career on the defensive end. He is a step slow and his mind drifts. He cannot anticipate what is going to happen to either stop a guy coming in the lane or where the ball is going to come off the board if the shot is missed. Those qualities are rare for big men in general and you can't blame coaches when players do not have the right stuff.

If this team cannot make a favorable trade and they go with the players currently on this team, then it is a no brainer for the coaching staff to get HARRELISON in game shape as soon as possible. This guy is a real sleeper. A friend of mine said before training camp started that Harrelison is a big secret in the league. He is young, smart, big, and he is a gifted shooter. He can defend pick and roll plays much better than Monroe for sure. I would greatly reduce Monroe's minutes depending on who Detroit is playing.

One last suggestion to the coaching staff concerns the way they are using Siva. When Siva enters the game, then more structured offensive sets need to be introduced where there is more motion. And Josh Smith needs to be in the game when Siva plays. It seems that when Siva enters the game, our small forward and big men stand around a lot and the team becomes more guard orientated. That is great when Jennings plays. But I believe that Siva is a play maker who can get the ball to the right spots for key players like Smith. With so many games being played it is difficult to find time to practice to bring in new stuff but this might work well for the team and bring out the strength of Siva's game.

The bottom line is that this team is really fun to watch and I am excited about the future. This is a learning year. We have some really good players to watch now. Enjoy!

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Stuff

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:26 pm

@PistonPete - You bring up important questions!

"Zone it up. I'm sure that could be a combat bandage to stop the bleeding. My question is where is Sheed. We know he has a mouth. In watching the games he sits stoically on the bench and watches the carnage. No rim protection, no effort from his boys. No words from Sheed. Of course we don't know what goes on in the locker room. Have they given up?"- Pete

It's obvious they can't do man defense yet, so in transition, they need to play standard zone, and if Mo knows how, use a modified zone the rest of the way. There are modified zones that are pretty close to man defense, but the point here is that we need to go zone(if for no other reason than to hide Monroe & Jennings) until they figure this out!


@DX - "I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now!" - DX


That's a legitimate disagreement, but the whiplash we're getting from your almost complete and total support of Monroe to this can only be matched by Phillip's going from Stuckey's #1 supporter to supporting his assignation Smile

@Seb - I have to agree with Don, Bennett looked good when the games didn't count, but now, who knows. Better to watch and see if he implodes in Cleveland!

@Don - "I have faith in this coaching staff over any other in a long time. I love Mo Cheeks and would have given anything to be able to play for him. He is no dummy." - Don

I have faith in them as well, but there's a difference in faith and reality, and the reality is that while Cheeks is indeed no dummy, he's slow to recognize and change.

The slow to change thing can be both good and bad, but the slow to recognize is just plain bad!

By no means when I criticize this coaching staff am I calling for a change, or have lost faith in them. I'm calling for them to react a lot more forcefully, and I believe beyond a doubt that after last night, they will!

However, as I said, the only hope is zoning right now, Monroe & Jennings aren't going to get better defensively overnight!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:06 pm

Go Stones! wrote:Joe D will keep Monroe.  He will use these poor numbers to resign him for less than a max deal.  This is what Joe did with Stuckey and others along the way.  Not sure how he does it...  I can see these 3 staying together for quite a while.

I'm not a Monroe fan b/c he acts so helpless when he goes up for a put-back and gets fouled.  Do it like a MAN with authority!  Also, he scowls at the refs when he gets a papercut.  Basketball is TOUGH!  Not for wimps.  Quit whining and just do your job.  

Enough said.
Stones I forgot to mention the whining. Perhaps if only Billups could school Monroe on using the brain more on defense to counter lack of basic quickness Monroe might get on a better course to improve. Instead he is whining about almost everything that goes wrong even when he throws a bad pass to cause a turnover. Billups at age 37 knows where to be on the floor. Monroe wonders out away from the paint trying to help a guard when he is not capable of defending his assigned man. The coaching staffs over the time Monroe has been a Piston have not been able to get through to him. Yet he seems to be a good guy who is cooperative when one watches his interviews. Maybe he has a learning disability. But this coaching staff needs to do what others couldn't do. Where high school coaches can teach complex things to their players, NBA coaches need to keep things simple maybe because the game is so much faster and also pro players come into the league these days with poor fundamentals and get away with not making any changes when they play for some teams. If Monroe were playing for the Spurs, he would be on the bench and that team would be looking to move him. It will be interesting to see what happens and if Detroit's coaching staff can come up with something to help Greg play smarter. I have faith in this coaching staff over any other in a long time. I love Mo Cheeks and would have given anything to be able to play for him. He is no dummy.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:51 pm

Sebastian wrote:
deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Sebastian wrote:Would you guys be down with a Moose for Anthony Bennett, straight-up swap. I know the Bennett kid has gotten off to a slow start and can use some serious conditioning, but he is still young and is not totally tarnished, yet, however the book may have already be written on Moose.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6359182

Cavaliers’ fans boo No. 1 pick Anthony Bennett. Really Cleveland?
Oracle, the time to boo in Cleveland was on draft night, when the #1  pick was used to select a one armed player, with no definite position to play, not when these facts could no longer be ignored.

I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now! The longer we hold onto him the closer he gets to becoming another one of the players Joe will be guilty of overvaluing. The market is hot right now with a few players who'd make a difference in Detroit, but they won't hang around until this mystical trade deadline that's talked about so much around here. Deadline doesn't mean "this is where the action begins," it means time is up! What's wrong with getting player(s) in while the team is coming together and there's hope of turning things around?

Sebastian, what about Monroe for Henson and Middleton? A shot blocker and a sweet shooter? I've also suggested a Monroe for Asik and bringing Drummond off the bench, but there is a strong case for keeping the big Moose who for the life of him, can't position himself between the basket and an onrushing player. A player who I don't recall ever knocking an opposing player on their ass!
Yo, DX, WE can't get Middleton back, because the CBA want allow for a player that was traded by a team to rejoin that same team during the same season that he has been traded. Joe should had moved Singler, instead of Middleton. But, you may be right on about Henson, but again the CBA will not allow for a Moose for Henson straight up deal, because of salary cap restrictions.

But, no doubt about now, Moose has to be moved. He is not good enough to keep or to pay max money to.
Not a good idea Sebastian. Bennett has mental issues that far out weigh his potential as a basketball player.

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Re: FORUM

Post  Sebastian on Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:37 pm

deusXango wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Sebastian wrote:Would you guys be down with a Moose for Anthony Bennett, straight-up swap. I know the Bennett kid has gotten off to a slow start and can use some serious conditioning, but he is still young and is not totally tarnished, yet, however the book may have already be written on Moose.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6359182

Cavaliers’ fans boo No. 1 pick Anthony Bennett. Really Cleveland?
Oracle, the time to boo in Cleveland was on draft night, when the #1  pick was used to select a one armed player, with no definite position to play, not when these facts could no longer be ignored.

I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now! The longer we hold onto him the closer he gets to becoming another one of the players Joe will be guilty of overvaluing. The market is hot right now with a few players who'd make a difference in Detroit, but they won't hang around until this mystical trade deadline that's talked about so much around here. Deadline doesn't mean "this is where the action begins," it means time is up! What's wrong with getting player(s) in while the team is coming together and there's hope of turning things around?

Sebastian, what about Monroe for Henson and Middleton? A shot blocker and a sweet shooter? I've also suggested a Monroe for Asik and bringing Drummond off the bench, but there is a strong case for keeping the big Moose who for the life of him, can't position himself between the basket and an onrushing player. A player who I don't recall ever knocking an opposing player on their ass!
Yo, DX, WE can't get Middleton back, because the CBA want allow for a player that was traded by a team to rejoin that same team during the same season that he has been traded. Joe should had moved Singler, instead of Middleton. But, you may be right on about Henson, but again the CBA will not allow for a Moose for Henson straight up deal, because of salary cap restrictions.

But, no doubt about now, Moose has to be moved. He is not good enough to keep or to pay max money to.
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Moose trade?

Post  deusXango on Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:08 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sebastian wrote:Would you guys be down with a Moose for Anthony Bennett, straight-up swap. I know the Bennett kid has gotten off to a slow start and can use some serious conditioning, but he is still young and is not totally tarnished, yet, however the book may have already be written on Moose.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6359182

Cavaliers’ fans boo No. 1 pick Anthony Bennett. Really Cleveland?
Oracle, the time to boo in Cleveland was on draft night, when the #1 pick was used to select a one armed player, with no definite position to play, not when these facts could no longer be ignored.

I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now! The longer we hold onto him the closer he gets to becoming another one of the players Joe will be guilty of overvaluing. The market is hot right now with a few players who'd make a difference in Detroit, but they won't hang around until this mystical trade deadline that's talked about so much around here. Deadline doesn't mean "this is where the action begins," it means time is up! What's wrong with getting player(s) in while the team is coming together and there's hope of turning things around?

Sebastian, what about Monroe for Henson and Middleton? A shot blocker and a sweet shooter? I've also suggested a Monroe for Asik and bringing Drummond off the bench, but there is a strong case for keeping the big Moose who for the life of him, can't position himself between the basket and an onrushing player. A player who I don't recall ever knocking an opposing player on their ass!
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Time for the Zone

Post  PistonPete on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:45 pm

Zone it up. I'm sure that could be a combat bandage to stop the bleeding. My question is where is Sheed. We know he has a mouth. In watching the games he sits stoically on the bench and watches the carnage. No rim protection, no effort from his boys. No words from Sheed. Of course we don't know what goes on in the locker room. Have they given up?

Sleepy Bibby, looks moribund and Cheeks looks worried. Almost makes you wish for Lil Larry's passion/NOT. But something is clearly missing.

Not sure if Moose will ever get basic defensive concepts. Not sure if you wanna trade him for another PF and give Smith free rein at SF or go for a perimeter player and have Smith move to PF. Milsap ate his lunch on his return home party. Very disappointing.

I wish we could trade moose for John Henson and MIddleton. Get Hammond on the phone!
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NO PRIDE NO PISTINS DNA NO WILL TO WIN

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:22 pm

lemonpen wrote:NBA odds are strongly against road teams in the 2nd of B2Bs.   But, what we saw was a blatant lack of will power from a young but not totally inexperienced team.  We allowed ourselves to be beaten down the floor countless times.  Beaten off of the dribble countless times.  Beaten to rebounds countless times.  A freakin disgrace.

Where was the on court leadership. No one seemed upset about getting out worked for 5 or 6 consecutive plays.

Since when does a team defend the P&R one way for an entire game?  Especially when it isn't working.  What happened to double teaming the guard, or at least a hard show by the big.
One could expect that this would be the role (Leader) Moose would play, Josh tries to do it he actually called the team out after the LA loss. He didn't come here to be a loser he's use to going to the playoffs every year but the rest of these losers don't have enough personal pride to get angry. Not sure if that's something CB or Sheed can teach them.
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What a Stinker

Post  lemonpen on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:51 pm

NBA odds are strongly against road teams in the 2nd of B2Bs.   But, what we saw was a blatant lack of will power from a young but not totally inexperienced team.  We allowed ourselves to be beaten down the floor countless times.  Beaten off of the dribble countless times.  Beaten to rebounds countless times.  A freakin disgrace.

Where was the on court leadership.  No one seemed upset about getting out worked for 5 or 6 consecutive plays.  

Since when does a team defend the P&R one way for an entire game?  Especially when it isn't working.  What happened to double teaming the guard, or at least a hard show by the big.
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Prediction: Joe D won't trade Greg, but will resign him

Post  Go Stones! on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Joe D will keep Monroe. He will use these poor numbers to resign him for less than a max deal. This is what Joe did with Stuckey and others along the way. Not sure how he does it... I can see these 3 staying together for quite a while.

I'm not a Monroe fan b/c he acts so helpless when he goes up for a put-back and gets fouled. Do it like a MAN with authority! Also, he scowls at the refs when he gets a papercut. Basketball is TOUGH! Not for wimps. Quit whining and just do your job.

Enough said.
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:25 pm

I'd give the big three a couple more months to see if this unit can work... the early concerns are being realized... could GM rotate quick enough?... would the paint be congested so much that we can't take advantage of our biggest strength (size).
On offense the only way to be successful is if other teams have to respect the perimeter shooting... so far this has not worked.

If we can't take advantage of our size then the experiment needs to be seriously re-evaluated b4 dolling out a huge contract to Monroe.... so far a better fit would be a hard nosed defender with range... there are a lot of teams willing to deal for Greg to fill their Center position... we have until Feb to give this a long hard look.
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Off Topic: The Bromance is over :(

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:25 pm

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Maurice Cheeks breaks preseason pledge

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:20 pm

From Piston Powered(these are all their words):

Maurice Cheeks announced before the season he’d have no lead assistant, and at that point, Vincent Goodwill of The Detroit News wrote:

When Cheeks was asked who would take over as acting coach in the event he were ever ejected from a game, Cheeks cooly replied, "I’m not getting ejected," before smiling and walking away.
Cheeks was ejected after getting two technical fouls in Detroit’s loss to the Hawks on Wednesday, and Maz Trakh took over head-coaching duties. I was a little disappointed Cheeks implemented a plan that involved keeping his cool and couldn’t stick with it, but I’m already over it.

I’m much more disappointed Cheeks hasn’t implemented a defensive scheme to lift the Pistons above last in defensive rating.
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Crazy Cleveland

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:12 pm

Sebastian wrote:Would you guys be down with a Moose for Anthony Bennett, straight-up swap. I know the Bennett kid has gotten off to a slow start and can use some serious conditioning, but he is still young and is not totally tarnished, yet, however the book may have already be written on Moose.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6359182

Cavaliers’ fans boo No. 1 pick Anthony Bennett. Really Cleveland?
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Hold on there Sparky... Trade this!

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:48 pm

First of all, it's WAY too early to be talking about trading Moose, and I'll give reasons in a minute. But first, one thing is totally clear! Last years team was a lot better than this team is now!

Less talented to be sure, but a much better team!

Moose has always had his problems, but nothing like what we're seeing now, and all of a sudden Drummond can't protect the rim? Last years team got beat, but not on one night did I see anything like what I saw last night from those guys, and we had Maxiell patrolling the paint!

Hell no, this isn't the players, this is the system that they're playing in that's causing all of these problems. With apologies to Marc Jackson, he's wrong! If you're a player, that doesn't mean you can adapt to any system, there has to be a fit for a lot of players(role players excepted).

Looking at this situation, defensively, they are suffering from either a lack of coaching, or very poor coaching, it's hard to know unless you can get a look at the practices.

The scary thing about what I saw last night was that fundamentals that I learned in high school were completely ignored on the defensive end, and quite frankly, it was embarrassing!

However, Jennings was a huge problem last night!

When your guard gives up penetration like that so easily, it puts the bigs in a horrible position! Their instinct is to defend against the penetration, but that's exactly what a smart PG wants them to do because it takes them out of position and opens up the paint for massive scoring opportunities for the opposition.

That happened all night long, as Jennings was defenseless against Teague who just owned him. Shockingly, Teague is a guard I would have thought that Jennings could handle. He's one of the smallest PG's we'll face, only about an inch taller than Jennings.

So what's my point about Monroe? Well, wanting to trade him is as risky as going shopping at the supermarket when you starving... you'll buy all of the wrong stuff!

We're trying to make decisions about a player under conditions that we can't trust! The system that the players are playing in isn't whole and complete yet! This is likely what Murph is calling "A Process".

Where I take exception with Murph is that you don't use the fact that it's a process as an excuse to lose, especially in that way! The loss last night goes well beyond any process that should occur!

It's all right to lose and learn, but to lose and be confused is ridiculous!

Something is wrong with the coaching, there can be no other explanation when you look at past performances of any of these players!

Cheeks needs to get a grip on this ASAP!

Closing Note: Josh Harrelson does need to see more PT, but he's not a replacement for Monroe, but right now he's more of a PF than Monroe, and he does stretch the court, which Monroe can't(and almost any other big defends better).
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Pistons Are Stuck With Moose For This Season

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:31 pm

Wow! I thought I was the only Moose Hunter. People what you are seeing is the very thing that both myself and Don been saying since last season and that's Moose lacks the passion to play defense and to improve on his games offensively. No doubt Moose has the talent and potential to be better, hell he can be a Superstar if he wanted to, but sadly he don't want that for himself, the team or the fans.

Honestly I don't think we can move him at this point and will have to wait on a sign and trade over the summer. If Stuckey can elevate his game in a contract season should Moose be doing the same? He does the same tired ass act as if 60 million is promised to him already because he knows he can skate by with his effort. He average 18pt and 9reb his first three games what's been his average in the 8 games after?

Moose was a slacker at Georgetown which is why he dropped in the draft still he was too risky to pass on, the same with case almost Knight and Drummond and hopefully this isn't the case with KCP considering Joe passed on Burke MCW. If everyone and their mothers were saying he needed to improved his Mid Range game and defense don't you think in a contract year he would have? He gets away with this because what are they going to do? Sit Him! likely not and he knows Joe is reluctant to hit that trade button but he's not worried about that either because again he feels entitled somehow through the press clippings.

This is also unfair to Drummond and Josh that he half asses out there and then say (we) after losses to imply that it was a team loss when most times it because he played like a big pussy. He never say's I fucked up it's always we


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Moose trade?

Post  Sebastian on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:49 am

Would you guys be down with a Moose for Anthony Bennett, straight-up swap. I know the Bennett kid has gotten off to a slow start and can use some serious conditioning, but he is still young and is not totally tarnished, yet, however the book may have already be written on Moose.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6359182

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:35 am

Fennis Dembo wrote:Charlie V did not play because of  a sore back.  My question is not the obvious, how the hell do you injure your back when you have played in one game in three weeks?  But, shouldn't Gores kick in for a nice recliner chair to prevent injury for a certain someone who has  spent many hours sitting on a hard folding chair?  Some of you might  argue the point that Charlie makes almost $100,000 a game sitting for  two hours watching a  game, let him buy his own freakin' recliner.  To that I retort, let he who is without back pain or their own La-Z-Boy cast the first stone.
Profound observations from one who lives in in space within the Milky Way Fennis. I will chip in for that recliner for Charlie as long as I don't have to see him in a Piston uniform. But maybe Joe Dumars is thinking that once Charlie's back is better, he should be in the rotation. After all, as Joe has stated this past summer, Charlie is young with great potential. It appears that Charlie was coaching Monroe to help improve his defense and that is how he hurt his back. So the back injury was in the line of duty and did not involve any club activities.

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The Muppets Are Getting A Little Thick Around Here...

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:30 am

Murph wrote:First, let me say that one of the nice things about this forum use to be that everyone was pretty straight forward, and no one use to post under assumed muppet names.  I say "use to"...  

I mean, if you have something to post, post it once or twice, or maybe even three times.  But don't use assumed muppet names to post the same thing about 10 times in a row.  It not really fair.  Just saying...


Next, you could see this loss coming a mile away.  We were playing a good team, on the road, on the second night of a back-to-back.  As a young team, we just aren't good enough, or conditioned well enough to expect to win games like that one.  Games like this are scheduling losses.  Deal with it.

Like I said yesterday, it's a process.
Muppet! Murph you damn well this is me (WISEFAN)
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Harrelison is a better fit for Detroit than Monroe if Detroit wants to be a good defensive team - Jennings is failing on defense as well but he still has potential

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:20 am

dX and others have been on the right track for a long time in identifying lack of progress with Monroe's defense. I think he is not capable of getting it mentally. Monroe is doing what he has been doing for the past 3 years on defense. I watch him slowly move out of the paint to attempt a double team. He is too slow to get out on time. Then there is no reaction by Greg to recover. I thought that Monroe actually played better defense last night than he did against New York. He was horrible in the Knick game beyond description. Meanwhile I saw Harelison make all the correct rotations on defense. He knows how to play. His mind is in the game. He reacts quickly for a big man. This guy is not a liability off the bench at all. And he has an outside shot. Harrelison is young with a strong body. He is a smart player with great potential. Joe Dumars has made some mistakes but he also has picked up some players who do know how to play ball. Harrelison takes up a lot of space on the floor. It is time for Mo Cheeks to place him in the rotation and greatly reduce minutes for Greg Monroe. What bothers me most about Monroe is the fact that he has not been able to improve at all since his rookie season on the defensive end. And he is too slow to get the big defensive rebounds when it counts. I am sure that Mo Cheeks knows what is going on regarding this issue. You also have to wonder why Monroe has not responded to coaching. I am sure that Rasheed has tried his best to get Monroe on track. We can see how he has helped Drummond.

Piston guards were AWOL last night and the leader of that group was Brandon Jennings. However, at least he is aware of his screw ups on defense. You can see his reactions when his man turns the corner and gets in the lane. I think before the season is over, we will see Brandon do a better job of stopping dribble penetration because he does respond to coaching and does respect Mo Cheeks. And if Detroit had a power forward who is both a scoring threat and can play great defense, that guy could make up for some of the guard's mistakes. Right now the combination of poor guard defense and Greg Monroe's slow reaction time to everything going on with defensive rotations, opposing teams can kill our Pistons almost every night. Now we have to take into consideration the poor outside shooting of our Pistons last night that lead to easy points too. If more shots are made, the defense wouldn't be looking as weak. KCP had a horrible shooting outing that must be taken into consideration. That won't happen often. With all that said, the real weak link with this team right now is Greg Monroe's defense. Can he pull off a miracle and make a huge change or is it over for him as a Piston???

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DX has the winning answer ...

Post  Sebastian on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:17 am

deusXango wrote:Sebastian, the Joe/Hammond dog lovers connection, inline with the loss of Larry Sanders, opens the door for the balcony boys (Merc & Murph) to be made very happy; we trade the Moose for John Henson (if PF is what we need) and call it a day. I'm not sure what Monroe's contract demands will be, but it's becoming obvious that they'll be too much; Henson is itching to play and play he can! I was against drafting him, because of his slight build, but he's putting on the potatoes, never been hurt, and one hell of a shot-blocker; he's got an evolving, diverse offensive game also. Can I get a YEA, for John Henson? The Bucks are overcrowded with PF's and Henson is the odd man out. His contract demands will be manageable.  
I, too, was hoping that Joe would not draft Henson for the very same reason that you have pointed out. I didn't think that WE needed another thin man (I say another, because at the time Tayshaun was still on OUR roster). But, you may be right, Henson may be an equitable swap for Moose.

Henson has surprised me with his ability to play the NBA game. Where I reside, down here in NC, only 9 miles from Chapel Hill in the lovely city of Durham, I am quite aware of Henson's usual abilities. The dude is very ambidextrous and he would come cheap, as he is only in the second year of his rookie contract.

I tried this trade at the NBA Trade Machine (ESPN) and it doesn't work, because of cap restrictions. Damn!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k75aplc

But, I don't care what anybody says, Moose has got to be traded and quick, because other teams (GMs, coaches, scouts) are beginning to see that Moose really is not that good.
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Milwaukee holds the answer?

Post  deusXango on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:36 am

Sebastian, the Joe/Hammond dog lovers connection, inline with the loss of Larry Sanders, opens the door for the balcony boys (Merc & Murph) to be made very happy; we trade the Moose for John Henson (if PF is what we need) and call it a day. I'm not sure what Monroe's contract demands will be, but it's becoming obvious that they'll be too much; Henson is itching to play and play he can! I was against drafting him, because of his slight build, but he's putting on the potatoes, never been hurt, and one hell of a shot-blocker; he's got an evolving, diverse offensive game also. Can I get a YEA, for John Henson? The Bucks are overcrowded with PF's and Henson is the odd man out. His contract demands will be manageable.
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Defense?!

Post  deusXango on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:16 am

There are many ways a big man can defend his teams basket; when was the last time anyone remembers Moose or Drummond taking a combined 5 or more charges in the paint? Out of all the combined rebounds, what percentage of them are defensive? Everybody from speedy little guards to big, clumsy, lumbering, opposing big men continually drive to the rim, without being contested. Like Wise stated, Monroe is getting up off his ass too much, to be a fearful big man; he's more like a shamefully weak joke.
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Moose has got to be moved!

Post  Sebastian on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:10 am

deusXango wrote:I've seen enough, and can admit when I'm wrong. Our interior defense sucks and won't get any better with time; we ain't talking fine wine, we're talking lazy ass basketball players, and something drastic needs to be done about them!

Sebastian, Wise (MooseFan), I've finally become convinced that Greg Monroe is the modern day Kelly Tripucka; no matter how much he scores, he'll give up more on the defensive end....to whoever he plays against!! It's time for him to be replaced, not benched, but replaced! If there's anyone in the starting lineup that needs to be benched, it's Drummond; not benched, per se, but relegated to coming off the bench. We've got three starters to build around and the sooner the better. Smith, Jennings, and KCP. Drummond and Stuckey should be the backbone of our 2nd unit.

The talk about who to trade Monroe for has been crazy; trade him for Rudy Gay...trade him for Wilson Chandler...trade him and Hooper for LeBron. I'm for trading him for Omer Asik, straight up. Asik is a bona fide rim protector and rebounder, who can score. He's arguably the best center in Houston right now. Trade for Asik and give Gigi a turn at starting SF; sit Singler down, until he get's his sh!t together, and play Mitchell for those wasted 20 minutes a night. I don't expect this to sit well with many fans, but what I saw last night didn't sit well with me. I've been a big fan of Omer Asik for quite some time and the word is getting out on how good this man is, but who's willing to trade a Greg Monroe for him? Joe needs to do that deal right away.
Moose for Omer Asik: DX you may be on to something. Asik is a bonifide rim protector, no doubt. And, WE have not protected the rim at all. It has been a lay-up drill for OUR opponents during these first 11 games. But, I believe that WE need a bonifide PF in exchange for Moose, because I am not convinced that Josh Smith is anything near a full-time PF.

If Larry Sanders had not broken his hand (will miss 6 weeks from hand surgery that to place on Monday), then I would had been in favor of Joe offering the Bucks Moose for Sanders. Come to thank of it Moose and the Bucks and the fact that Joe and Hammonds both are dog owners would be a perfect swap. But, WE can't wait for Sanders' hand to heal.

DX, right now, I don't know what to do with Moose, but one thing is certain, something has got to be done and quick!

Moose is not worth a max contract and your Kelly Tripuka comparison is on point, because Moose can't stop anybody.
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Pistons Defense is A TRUE JOKE

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:07 am

This Hawks games made me throw-UP! The pick and roll defense made Teague and any other big on the Hawks look like F.U.C.K.I.N.G John Stockton and Karl Malone, pick and roll game.

HORRIBLE! DEFENSE EFFORT! TERRIBLE!!! The WORST DEFENSE EFFORT I HAVE SEEN. 2004 Phoenix Suns type of Defense. HORRIBLE!

I have seen middle school basketball where the players work harder on defense.

Something has to be done about this right now. The Pistons are giving away games!
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