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Standings...

Post  Go Stones! on Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:35 pm

Detroit is 8th right now, which is where everyone had us. The funny thing is that we have Charlotte, Atlanta, Toronto and Philly ahead of us and Brooklyn and NY behind us.

We did not plan to win against Indy, OKC, Portland, GS or Chicago. We thought we should have won against the Lakers, Hawks and others, but we are still getting our team figured out.

All things considered, we are right where we should be.
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Reprinted from Bleacher Report

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:32 pm

The line on ARRON AFFLALO:

2013-14 Stats: 36.7 MPG, 22.5 PPG, 4.5 APG, 49% FG

Eye-popping Game: 36 points, eight rebounds and six assists in win over Milwaukee Bucks

Arron Afflalo led the Orlando Magic in scoring for most of the 2012-13 season, so why is he on this list?

Because he's everywhere, and his stats aren't just up—they're up dramatically in every category. He's delivering a bigger breakout start than Magic fans ever hoped for.

Afflalo went from 16.5 points per game to 22.5, 3.2 assists to 4.5 assists and 44 percent shooting to 49 percent.

What's most impressive is his breakout performance behind the arc. Afflalo is making 2.9 three-pointers per night, which is twice as many as he's ever averaged. And he's hitting them at a ridiculous 54 percent clip.

His shooting efficiency will come back down to earth at some point, but I still expect him to post career highs in nearly every major statistic.

Hopefully next year we'll be reading about Brandon Knight and Khris Middleton going down this same path; it'll prove that Joe can draft, but regrettably, he just don't know who to keep and who to let go.
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One thing to remember about Moose...

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:59 pm

Every season he has been the slowest starter out of the gate than any player I've ever seen, and each of those years, we did the same thing... question if he can play!

That's why I was so shocked that he seemed to come right out of the gate with such strong performances.

Now that's looking like a mirage, and Moose may be starting slow as usual, so IMO, we need to take a wait and see on him!
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REMEMBER

Post  WTF on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:36 pm

How you all use to kill Kwame for his TO's well Moose is just as bad if not worse when it comes to holding onto the ball. Just Saying lol 
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Don

Post  WTF on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:25 pm

This means that he has not been receptive to coaching because you can bet this coaching staff has been on his ass. - cool breeze

Don, this is what bothers m the most about Moose. I was watching the Thunder-Clipper game last night and they were commenting on how Rivers insisted that Blake become more of an out-side threat and how Blake has responded to it. Blake was knocking down shoots left and right from Mid-range and all I can think about was Moose's ass not responding to his coach who insisted on the same thing.

I don't give jack **** about Moose's stats (which are respectable) at the end of the game, but he's not asked to be a post presence offensively because that doesn't help with spreading of the floor and it hurts the team offensively. So it's not just on the defensive end that he hurts the team.
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:11 pm

Murph wrote:This forum went completely off the rails yesterday.  If you happen to look at the game flow chart, you will find that what everyone was basing Moose about yesterday was not true.

It's true that Moose had a lousy game, but his inability to guard Milsap was not the reason the Pistons lost.  The Pistons were hanging in, down by 2 at the 7 minute mark of the 4th quarter.   A that point, the Hawks inserted Jeff Teague, Demarre Carroll and Al Horford back into the game.  From that point on, the game quickly got out of hand, with the Hawks out-scoring the Pistons 17-11, the rest of the way.

For the final 7 minutes of the game, Milsap did not play at all, and Jeff Teague was the leading scorer down the stretch, scoring 8 of the Hawks' last 17 points.  And in that Milsap was not in the game, Milsap scored 0 points down the stretch.

And please remind me again who was supposed to be guarding Teague?  scratch  Oh that's right...Brandon Jennings.

Furthermore, Milsap only scored 19 points on Wed night, which is only 3 points above his season average.  So it's not as if Milsap torched Monroe for a career game or anything.

But never let reality get in the way of a good argument.
Murph, will all due respect, I wasn't bashing the Moose for his play against any individual, but his overall defensive performances of late; a legion of players, from different teams, have driven into our paint and like thieves in the night, gone right past Monroe, straight to the rim, totally unmolested! The sickening fact is, he was looking right at them!! I don't know about anyone else, but for my money a player of Monroe's size and weight, I expect them to lay an intruder out, sending the message, "don't come into Detroit's paint!!" Flagrant foul? So what! Flagrant means serious (which is a lot different from silly) and once the word gets around that we're serious, and it would, those attacks on our interior would cease, resulting in our defensive points allowed going down.

Gentleman ball. That's what Monroe is playing on our interior and that bad habit is being picked up by young and impressionable Dre' Drummond; that's got to be nipped in the bud! WTF is a gentleman/beast anyway? Jason Collins? Yeah, I went there; couldn't help it. We're being punked at an increasing rate, and the scores show that! All of our loses aren't on Monroe.

Jennings is playing the strangest game that I've seen on a professional floor in my life; he'd look good on the playground, but at the Palace? Hell no! I'm not going to get into an all out rant, but y'all keep watching this guy play and tell me what you think around deadline time. Remember those colorful pajamas he wore for his birthday? Cute, but not Detroit. Mentally he's playing with those same pajamas on; cute, but he ain't playing Detroit ball! A no defense, glorified ball hog, who jacks up shots at a ridiculously low percentage rate. His high assist rate is due to the fact that he can see the game, he just can't see where he fits into the game.

Murph, I hope things change; that would be preferable to making roster changes, but changes must be made.
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Oracle and Murph

Post  WTF on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:06 pm

Oracle, I would much more rather be wrong about Moose than I am right. Thought after the first three games of the season I was wrong but then he went right back into that typical pattern of being inconsistent. I think he has all the talent and potential in the world but his ass seems lazy and heartless at times.

Murph, No one blamed Moose for the loss but he certainly did his part. Milsap only played 3 quarters but for 3 quarters he whipped on Moose's ass. Win, lose or draw Moose's game has declined consistently since the Pacers game and he's been consistently abused by the opposing teams PF's and centers.

Our front court was awesome the first 3 games of the season, Moose played hard in those games, he was diving for loose balls and we all were thinking they're going to be alright. Then the Pacers came to town and though we put up a good fight they clearly kicked our their asses and from that point on Moose has been out-played by every single PF he faced since. Drummond has been Drummond and we all know he needs to improve no surprise there and Josh has been busting his ass game in and game out and Moose simply been riding the collective coat-tail of the group as a whole but individually he has slipped the most. I can't help but be frustrated with him because theirs been no real improvement in his game since his rookie season.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:05 pm

Murph wrote:This forum went completely off the rails yesterday.  If you happen to look at the game flow chart, you will find that what everyone was basing Moose about yesterday was not true.

It's true that Moose had a lousy game, but his inability to guard Milsap was not the reason the Pistons lost.  The Pistons were hanging in, down by 2 at the 7 minute mark of the 4th quarter.   A that point, the Hawks inserted Jeff Teague, Demarre Carroll and Al Horford back into the game.  From that point on, the game quickly got out of hand, with the Hawks out-scoring the Pistons 17-11, the rest of the way.

For the final 7 minutes of the game, Milsap did not play at all, and Jeff Teague was the leading scorer down the stretch, scoring 8 of the Hawks' last 17 points.  And in that Milsap was not in the game, Milsap scored 0 points down the stretch.

And please remind me again who was supposed to be guarding Teague?  scratch  Oh that's right...Brandon Jennings.

Furthermore, Milsap only scored 19 points on Wed night, which is only 3 points above his season average.  So it's not as if Milsap torched Monroe for a career game or anything.

But never let reality get in the way of a good argument.
Murph I said in an earlier post that Monroe doesn't look as bad when you look at the stats and that is what you have done here. One of the things that happened in this last game was Monroe going out too far from the paint on defense and then not even trying to recover. He is not quick enough to wonder away from the paint. And you are correct that Brandon Jennings couldn't stay in front of Teague. But many times Monroe failed to anticipate dribble penetration in the paint. He has a habit of doing the easy thing by switching off his man at the wrong time. His bogus decisions adversely affect the defense. He is switching when no switch is necessary and then his man is wide open in the low box. You have mentioned this last game but what about all of the other games the Pistons have played this season? The same thing is happening with Greg on defense that happened last season and the season before. Monroe is known as perhaps the worst big man defender in the entire league. This means that he has not been receptive to coaching because you can bet this coaching staff has been on his ass. Monroe usually makes less mistakes on defense in the 2nd half of games. Why can't he start games with his brain functioning properly? He looks like he is on some type of sinus medication that makes him sleepy. Monroe couldn't defend anyone in college and he making the same mistakes after being in the NBA for a long time. He is not quick and is not in good enough shape it appears to play as hard as he needs to play to make up for his lack of quickness. He is often dragging down the court behind other players which is a dead give away for a player who is not in great shape. This is his contract season and we should be seeing his best effort. That effort is not good enough right now. The team is suffering because of his lack of ability to defend properly. You can see his burst of speed when he drives to the basket. Why can't he transform that effort his gives at times on offense to help the team on defense? We all know that Joe Dumars selected weak defenders to man his back court. For Detroit to win the team needs to have good big man defenders not below average defenders in the painted area. So far the coaching staff has not been able to get Greg on track even with Rasheed helping out. Play Harrielson more. He can defend better and that is what this team needs right now.

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Tonight

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:07 am

I'm fully expecting a well rested Pistons team to exact revenge on the Hawks tonight at home at the Palace...which will have the crickets chirping in this forum all weekend long. Sleep 
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:39 am

This forum went completely off the rails yesterday.  If you happen to look at the game flow chart, you will find that what everyone was basing Moose about yesterday was not true.

It's true that Moose had a lousy game, but his inability to guard Milsap was not the reason the Pistons lost.  The Pistons were hanging in, down by 2 at the 7 minute mark of the 4th quarter.   A that point, the Hawks inserted Jeff Teague, Demarre Carroll and Al Horford back into the game.  From that point on, the game quickly got out of hand, with the Hawks out-scoring the Pistons 17-11, the rest of the way.

For the final 7 minutes of the game, Milsap did not play at all, and Jeff Teague was the leading scorer down the stretch, scoring 8 of the Hawks' last 17 points.  And in that Milsap was not in the game, Milsap scored 0 points down the stretch.

And please remind me again who was supposed to be guarding Teague?  scratch  Oh that's right...Brandon Jennings.

Furthermore, Milsap only scored 19 points on Wed night, which is only 3 points above his season average. So it's not as if Milsap torched Monroe for a career game or anything.

But never let reality get in the way of a good argument.
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Don: A blessing and a Curse

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:55 am

"Oracle I think what you missed with my comments about NBA teams using zone defenses is the mental aspect." - Don

Yes Don, I did miss your main point, and I totally agree with you for reasons that will follow.

What we're faced with is both a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing to have the infusion of talent and all of the new faces!

It's a curse because it's going to take a good while before this team is running like a well tuned machine!

So if I may, I would like to modify what you said. IMO, it's mental only to the point that because they're all learning how to be a team first, introducing too much change along with that is problematic!

This also means that Cheeks is faced with two staggering problems at the same time, and that's a tough job for any coach.

Thanks to you making me think more about this, I'm backing way off of Cheeks until he has time to get more of what he wants through to the team.

They're going to be alright, and IMO, the most important thing that could happen is that they're playing their best basketball near the end of the season going into the playoffs.

I don't care if it's 8th seed, if we're playing well, it's something we can build on for next season!

We still need a couple more pieces to shore up the bench, and in my opinion, Bynum, CV & JJ are prime candidates to be moved, as neither of them really fill needs right now. Only JJ makes me sad to let go, but this is a business, and he'll be good anywhere he goes.

Finally a shout out to Wise/MooseFan! Wise, while I'm mostly NOT on the trade Monroe bandwagon, but I do have to admit that you've been more right than wrong about him. I just happen to believe that he can do better, but I also have to admit that time is running out for that argument!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:26 am

Oracle wrote:"Oracle I imagine almost every fan who has played basketball at the high school level would be screaming for the coaches to introduce some type of match up zone. However, this is the NBA we are talking about where the speed of the game and outside shooting ability of NBA players can destroy a zone. But the biggest reason why most teams that try zones don't work is the inability of players to grasp how to play zone defense properly." - Don

What? Last I looked, they play zone as both you and I did in college, AND in the NBA where at least I know haven't played Smile !

When you say the speed of the game has an effect, that's just plain wrong because it ignores the simple fact that the same speed you're talking about increases on both sides of the ball!

As I said, a modified zone can be near man to man defense as Flip demonstrated a million times!

However, no team in the NBA goes man defense all of the time, they all have and use a modified zone defense EVERY game!

Where the speed of the game has the most NEGATIVE impact is on man to man defense. In todays NBA, it's impossible to keep elite players contained by one man!

Modified zones are a compromise between getting burned by man defense and getting burned by double teaming! It's no guarantee, but if played right it's better than the other two by far!

Now on your comment about their ability to learn it, I ask you this! How much worse can we get burned by the 3 point shot than if we try something different.

The 3 point shot will be stopped more effectively with the modified zone as well, you may be thinking about a straight up zone, which is more vulnerable.

However, ask yourself this: If a zone takes away the paint and forces teams to take the least efficient shot in all of basketball, IMO, I can live with that! But that isn't really the case, you can mitigate both with modified zones!
Oracle I think what you missed with my comments about NBA teams using zone defenses is the mental aspect. Many college programs use zone defenses effectively. However, take a look at this Piston team and the players who are screwing up the defense. The question is do those players have enough basketball IQ on the defensive end to play zone or change up from man to zone? It is clear that our players are not playing defense well with the current game plan rotations they have worked on in practice. With Bynum currently injured, Monroe is the lone left over rotation player who is a liability from past seasons when thinking of defense. Now we have Brandon Jennings who is really having problems on the defensive end. However, I have hope for Jennings because he is smart and quick. So I think that as time goes by this season, he will get with the program and stay in front of his man. But for now, there are two players in the starting lineup who are known around the rest of the league as weak defenders. Jennings problem is that he gambles too much. Monroe lacks quickness and does not make up for that by using his brain more. Would he be more effective in a zone? You can only use the zone for a short time with NBA ball. My advise would be to restrict Monroe's tendency to drift out too far out of the paint and to limit his ability to switch off his man so much and to keep playing the same defense they have already worked on for so long. There are so many new players getting playing time and many mistakes are going to be made by players other than Monroe. Guards need to really improve but we all knew this would be a issue before the season started. Our guards are not great defenders. But they can become good defenders and Monroe can play better position basketball to make up for his lack of speed. It is really easy to improve your defense but you have to have a great work ethic to get there. Some players just don't know how much work it takes and go through their careers never reaching their potential. Monroe could be a complete player but I see the look on his face and that is a dead give away to me. He hasn't done the work and has no idea what kind of guts it takes to get in yourself best physical condition to be able to match the efforts of your opponent. Other Piston players need to talk more and help Greg out telling him where he needs to be. Maybe that will happen. But until Monroe plays better defense, that other young big man needs to get some of his playing time. He is already far ahead of Monroe on the defensive end.

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Who's on the block right now!

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:39 pm

This may surprise some, but it also provides some insight as to who we could get in trade - It’s Never Too Early To Make A Move

On another note: I see today there appears to be a lot of taking things to extremes.

1. We mention going to a zone, and folks respond like we're saying that all they should do is zone.

2. We mention that they're doing ISO's too much, and it gets taken as ISO's may be bad.

I'm just saying that if in doubt, cut us a break, it's not likely that we're going crazy Smile
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Standing before my peers

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:33 pm

deusXango wrote:@DX - "I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now!" - DX


That's a legitimate disagreement, but the whiplash we're getting from your almost complete and total support of Monroe to this can only be matched by Phillip's going from Stuckey's #1 supporter to supporting his assignation.-Oracle

Oracle, when I'm shown that I'm wrong, I'm wrong and beating a dead horse isn't going to make me right. I can't deny what my eyes see, and more is at stake than Monroe's upcoming contract; there's the here and now that's in jeopardy. If I know better and can see the other man's position makes sense, where mine doesn't, my pride demands that I acknowledge the error of my thinking; to do otherwise is insulting to my fellows and opens the door for the loss of respect.

Not only was I wrong about Monroe, but I believe I was wrong about John Henson (who I'm calling for Joe to obtain now) that's why I acknowledged his supporters on this site, Merc & Murph, as having the foresight to see this guy was a player. In addition to the lively discussions, in here, it's the opportunity to be humble enough to realize, I don't know every damn thing; I'd be lost with that if it wasn't for you guys.
DX, don't do it stick by your original stance on defending Monroe. You know how long I've been defending CV rockon 
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Iso's Aren't All Bad

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:27 pm

Just don't need the entire team exercising the opportunity to do so. I don't mind when Stuckey does it (isos) most times it by design although everyone kills him for it when he does. I do have a problem with Jennings not resetting plays when they breakdown. But another thing that kills us is the ill-advise decision making on when or when not to push tempo on fast break opportunities. A lot of times were giving the ball back on turnovers or taking bad shots
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Not so humble

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:00 pm

PistonPete wrote:The isos are due also to the team being too lazy to execute their plays.  I see plays breaking down all the time and espcially on the pick n roll, the picks are bad and the play devolves into a free for all.  Laziness and lack of discipline.  Cheeks has his work cut out for himself.
You're right!

It took Larry Brown almost 30 games before the team fell into line, and even then it took 3/4 of the season before he finally got what he wanted.

I know I'm a bit tough on Cheeks, but it's only about seeing incremental progress. When it's regression, that's where it gets disturbing(last night).

As Don said, Cheeks is no dummy, he'll get there!

I'll feel better if we blow Atlanta out, but that hasn't been our style so far this year.
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IMHO

Post  PistonPete on Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:10 pm

The isos are due also to the team being too lazy to execute their plays. I see plays breaking down all the time and espcially on the pick n roll, the picks are bad and the play devolves into a free for all. Laziness and lack of discipline. Cheeks has his work cut out for himself.
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Standing before my peers

Post  deusXango on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:42 pm

@DX - "I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now!" - DX


That's a legitimate disagreement, but the whiplash we're getting from your almost complete and total support of Monroe to this can only be matched by Phillip's going from Stuckey's #1 supporter to supporting his assignation.-Oracle

Oracle, when I'm shown that I'm wrong, I'm wrong and beating a dead horse isn't going to make me right. I can't deny what my eyes see, and more is at stake than Monroe's upcoming contract; there's the here and now that's in jeopardy. If I know better and can see the other man's position makes sense, where mine doesn't, my pride demands that I acknowledge the error of my thinking; to do otherwise is insulting to my fellows and opens the door for the loss of respect.

Not only was I wrong about Monroe, but I believe I was wrong about John Henson (who I'm calling for Joe to obtain now) that's why I acknowledged his supporters on this site, Merc & Murph, as having the foresight to see this guy was a player. In addition to the lively discussions, in here, it's the opportunity to be humble enough to realize, I don't know every damn thing; I'd be lost with that if it wasn't for you guys.
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Sissy

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:46 pm

Great observation!

They go ISO because they're believing their press clippings and think that just because you have a slight advantage, you can beat anybody!

Well, that may be true once they get locked in better, but it's still a poor substitute for moving the ball and getting somebody an open shot!

Besides, the longer they keep trying these ISO's, the easier they'll be to defend, and explains why our offense bogs down so much!

The shocking thing to me is that this is not how Cheeks teams won, and he shouldn't let them keep doing this!
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Just exactly how hard is it to get a Shot on this team?

Post  Sissy1946 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:28 pm

Honest answer or a knee jerk answer comes to mind: To me an honest answer would be how hard is it really for Datome, Pope or Whoevers in there to get a shot when we've got Jennings, Smith, Stuckey & Bynum Hogging the ball, have been noticing it for several games this year, they all go iSo on any & everybody when they have the ball, sure they pass but I think the times or the percentages need to be looked at & on why they never hardly pass the ball being all individual Ball Hog Players, just saying, watch these four in the next coming games & take an honest look at it.
Now the knee jerk reaction reaction is well that can't be happening right, their all professionals & this couldn't happen right? Keep an eye on them & lets see if this is happening, I've  watched Datome play a little lately & when Jennings, Smith or Stuckey are in there with him he hardly ever sees the ball, when they have the ball their always going one in one with their defenders & not looking to pass & we are lacking ball movement on this team.
Hey my opinion but something's afoul here to some extent, another thing is Cheeks not recognizing that we need scorers & Luigi sits there every night & hardly plays & then he gets in there & they freeze him out or looks like they do & then I see who the players are in the game with him & it always comes up: Smith, Jennings, Stuckey & especially Bynum when playing & what's the deal with Mktchell nkt getting any burn but we see Smith jacking up three all over the place turning the ball over continuously.
same with Monroe, if he never puts the ball on the floor it would be a miracle with all the turnovers he's acumulating & when is Cheeks going to seriously think about hiring a real free throw shooting coach for Andre?
Somehow nothing's working so far, in fact Drummond has regressed more this year, things I need to get off my chest on a Thrusday evening because I'm not happy in the direction this team is going. We've given games away this year that we had a chance to win, like I said a week ago if you don't fix it now then it festers out to become 10 games & that spirals to 15-20-25-30 games without a fix, something needs to be done now instead of blowing games by not scoring or playing defense even though the defense is getting better, the offense still sucks.


Last edited by Sissy1946 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Love A Good Zone

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:39 pm

Yes Flip was the Master of the Zone Defense and I do think Cheeks need to use it more, but it doesn't seem to work very well not sure why. They play to far off the perimeter and get torched or get beat off the dribble it almost become useless to use it.

Flip use to zone one side of the court and pressure the ball-handler force them to throw it in the teeth of the zone, but we don't have Sheed, Big Ben, Prince or Dice
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They sound cluless to me...

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:34 pm

Detroit Pistons agree: They must improve pick-and-roll defense

Two things jumped out at me.

1. "Josh Smith says the Detroit Pistons need a little more physicality. Maurice Cheeks and Greg Monroe say the Pistons are physical enough." - Josh is right!

2. "But maybe things should be simplified. The team can try to adjust to personnel, but maybe they should just have a couple coverages to eliminate confusion." - They were already supposed to have done that, as Cheeks has said previously!

Don is of the opinion that we can correct what's wrong without changing much! I mostly agree, but still think a modified zone needs to be a defensive package for them.

If they can slow down the pick and roll, it gives them a strong opportunity to stop the kick outs to shooters. KCP was amazing on Korver last night, and shows tremendous promise, but he needs help!

So we'll see how this evolves...
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Don, seriously you jest!

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:16 pm

"Oracle I imagine almost every fan who has played basketball at the high school level would be screaming for the coaches to introduce some type of match up zone. However, this is the NBA we are talking about where the speed of the game and outside shooting ability of NBA players can destroy a zone. But the biggest reason why most teams that try zones don't work is the inability of players to grasp how to play zone defense properly." - Don

What? Last I looked, they play zone as both you and I did in college, AND in the NBA where at least I know haven't played Smile !

When you say the speed of the game has an effect, that's just plain wrong because it ignores the simple fact that the same speed you're talking about increases on both sides of the ball!

As I said, a modified zone can be near man to man defense as Flip demonstrated a million times!

However, no team in the NBA goes man defense all of the time, they all have and use a modified zone defense EVERY game!

Where the speed of the game has the most NEGATIVE impact is on man to man defense. In todays NBA, it's impossible to keep elite players contained by one man!

Modified zones are a compromise between getting burned by man defense and getting burned by double teaming! It's no guarantee, but if played right it's better than the other two by far!

Now on your comment about their ability to learn it, I ask you this! How much worse can we get burned by the 3 point shot than if we try something different.

The 3 point shot will be stopped more effectively with the modified zone as well, you may be thinking about a straight up zone, which is more vulnerable.

However, ask yourself this: If a zone takes away the paint and forces teams to take the least efficient shot in all of basketball, IMO, I can live with that! But that isn't really the case, you can mitigate both with modified zones!
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:53 pm

Oracle I imagine almost every fan who has played basketball at the high school level would be screaming for the coaches to introduce some type of match up zone. However, this is the NBA we are talking about where the speed of the game and outside shooting ability of NBA players can destroy a zone. But the biggest reason why most teams that try zones don't work is the inability of players to grasp how to play zone defense properly. - cool breeze

Don that has been the problem the few times Cheeks has tried using a zone some of the players can't grasp it concept which puzzle the hell out of me. I do "however" think Cheeks need to use it at least some during the course of the game
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cool breeze is a patient man ...

Post  Sebastian on Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:19 pm

cool breeze wrote:
Oracle wrote:@PistonPete - You bring up important questions!

"Zone it up. I'm sure that could be a combat bandage to stop the bleeding. My question is where is Sheed. We know he has a mouth. In watching the games he sits stoically on the bench and watches the carnage. No rim protection, no effort from his boys. No words from Sheed. Of course we don't know what goes on in the locker room. Have they given up?"- Pete[/

It's obvious they can't do man defense yet, so in transition, they need to play standard zone, and if Mo knows how, use a modified zone the rest of the way. There are modified zones that are pretty close to man defense, but the point here is that we need to go zone(if for no other reason than to hide Monroe & Jennings) until they figure this out!


@DX - "I've got to disagree with you bro', the time to cut bait with Monroe (who I really like) is now!" - DX


That's a legitimate disagreement, but the whiplash we're getting from your almost complete and total support of Monroe to this can only be matched by Phillip's going from Stuckey's #1 supporter to supporting his assignation Smile

@Seb - I have to agree with Don, Bennett looked good when the games didn't count, but now, who knows. Better to watch and see if he implodes in Cleveland!

@Don - "I have faith in this coaching staff over any other in a long time. I love Mo Cheeks and would have given anything to be able to play for him. He is no dummy." - Don

I have faith in them as well, but there's a difference in faith and reality, and the reality is that while Cheeks is indeed no dummy, he's slow to recognize and change.

The slow to change thing can be both good and bad, but the slow to recognize is just plain bad!

By no means when I criticize this coaching staff am I calling for a change, or have lost faith in them. I'm calling for them to react a lot more forcefully, and I believe beyond a doubt that after last night, they will!

However, as I said, the only hope is zoning right now, Monroe & Jennings aren't going to get better defensively overnight!

Oracle I imagine almost every fan who has played basketball at the high school level would be screaming for the coaches to introduce some type of match up zone. However, this is the NBA we are talking about where the speed of the game and outside shooting ability of NBA players can destroy a zone. But the biggest reason why most teams that try zones don't work is the inability of players to grasp how to play zone defense properly. Remember that coaches have to keep things simple for players who have never had to face up to their lack of knowledge and experience in ever really playing serious defense. Sometimes I just would appreciate that our Pistons get their legs bent. There is no easier defense to play from a mental perspective than man to man. However, our players can't get the switches down for that defense so how in hell can we expect them to be able to play zone defense. For sure at the high school level teams have to play zone defense when they field teams that have players with limited athletic ability. What separates the really good two way players in the NBA is their minds. If a player cannot anticipate things after getting beat 3 times, then there is something wrong mentally. It has nothing to do with the athletic ability. Some fans are now blaming players mistakes on the coaches which has been the trend for fans who have watched the Pistons play for several seasons. Coaches like Rasheed know that it is stupid to try to scream at players during a game or in a timeout. What Rasheed and coach Cheeks are seeing during the games is a basic lack of (WILL) by certain players relating to their not having the proper desire to get down and concentrate on what they have been taught. If you are a coach, this is the most frustrating thing you go through. Rasheed for instance can work his ass off on the practice court going over the same things hour after hour and day after day and then watch players like Monroe wonder out to the 3 point line to trap a guard leaving the paint wide open and his assigned man long gone under the basket for either an easy basket or a offensive rebound and put back. I have watched both Singler and Smith fly out to a wide open shooter when it is not their responsibility to do that. A screw up in the defensive rotation happened where players like Monroe decide to switch out to a guard when they should remain with their assigned player causing everyone to get lost in the defense. If the team decides to play zone to help with dribble penetration then you need to have smart and quick big men. One of the big problems is matching up to box out on the defensive boards while playing zone. Our guys are not even trying to box out while playing man to man. It goes back to the old saying about the NBA that you need to have the really good players who have the proper mindset to win in this league. The players have to want to be coached and they have to have the desire to improve. Monroe hasn't improved in his entire NBA career on the defensive end. He is a step slow and his mind drifts. He cannot anticipate what is going to happen to either stop a guy coming in the lane or where the ball is going to come off the board if the shot is missed. Those qualities are rare for big men in general and you can't blame coaches when players do not have the right stuff.

If this team cannot make a favorable trade and they go with the players currently on this team, then it is a no brainer for the coaching staff to get HARRELISON in game shape as soon as possible. This guy is a real sleeper. A friend of mine said before training camp started that Harrelison is a big secret in the league. He is young, smart, big, and he is a gifted shooter. He can defend pick and roll plays much better than Monroe for sure. I would greatly reduce Monroe's minutes depending on who Detroit is playing.

One last suggestion to the coaching staff concerns the way they are using Siva. When Siva enters the game, then more structured offensive sets need to be introduced where there is more motion. And Josh Smith needs to be in the game when Siva plays. It seems that when Siva enters the game, our small forward and big men stand around a lot and the team becomes more guard orientated. That is great when Jennings plays. But I believe that Siva is a play maker who can get the ball to the right spots for key players like Smith. With so many games being played it is difficult to find time to practice to bring in new stuff but this might work well for the team and bring out the strength of Siva's game.

The bottom line is that this team is really fun to watch and I am excited about the future. This is a learning year. We have some really good players to watch now. Enjoy!
cool breeze, you've got the patience of Job, but Gores and Joe are probably not living by the same calendar that you are my friend. **** has got to change and it has got to change quick, because the schedule only gets tougher going forward.
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