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Because moving Greg Monroe is not A smart move

Post  Phil1980boy on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:10 am

Greg has too much potential to be traded at this time. Here are A few examples. Kevin Love, Z.Randolph, Marcus Gasol, L.Aldridge, A Old Tim Duncan, Al Jefferson, C.Boozer, R.Hibbert, ETC.

Big boys with low post skills don't grow on Trees. Moving Moose because he don't fit on A bad team is short sited and very silly thinking.

If all these guys can get better so can Greg Monroe. When Monroe is in his prime he could be A MVP candidate.

Add A 23-24 year old Andre Drummonds next to Monroe to protect each other. I would not break up that potential NBA Finals 1,2 big man punch. SORRY!!

I don't care if we keep losing games. I know when I see something special. And Moose and Drummonds are special together. We just need them to grow up FAST!!!



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Cookie Monster and Moose Monster

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:04 am

Cookie Monster know eating all those cookies are unhealthy and it's killing him, but he keeps eating them anyway.  He's know he needs his fruits and vegetables, but he doesn't care about high cholesterol, blood pressure, getting fat he just want his cookies (Oreos, Chips Ahoy, Vanilla Wafers, Sugar Cookies, Macaroons, Peanut Butters)

This is how many of you are with Moose, you're all Moose Monster because you all see it every game that he doesn't Fit this team. That he doesn't have a Mid Range Game, that he doesn't Defend well, that he is not Clutch during crunch time when he need to be.  You all know that a healthy dose of SF or PF in the starting unit is what this team lacks, but still you Moose Monster don't care.  

You all complain about the tummy aches of not having a SF or PF suited to play with (Jennings, Josh, Andre and KCP) but still you all want more and more Moose.  I've always though Cookie Monster was off his rockers and some of you are starting to scare me with wanting more and more of what's not working.   Keeping Moose isn't healthy for the team now nor in the long run.
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Why Everyone Is So Against Trading Moose

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:45 pm

merc wrote:Let's make lottsa trades... or we could keep the pieces that could still work (ie. Afflalo, Middleton, Amir etc.)... just sayin' watch whatcha ask for.

Come on now merc, I don't think anyone has suggested gutting the team personally I've been behind only trading away players that aren't working and holds some value.  Moose is the piece that doesn't mesh with the rest of this squad and holds a position he not capable handling. Charlie V. 8.5 million of salary going down the drain as he racks up CD-DNPs left and right, Bynum something Joe had no business doing in the first place, Jebreko who's playing time is as relevant as that of Charlies.  

Why would anyone be against trading these players and what is this crazy obsession with Moose that he's become so damn untouchable when this team is on the brinks of over paying him for his declining production.  Keep him because it could work

Man that's they same craziness that got us jacked up to begin with, how use the words would or should oppose to could when we reference players.  That word could doesn't sound that definite as would and should does and this team needs to stop forcing pieces that don't fit.   Moose is a center not a PF and it's not going to work, but some think he should be some back up for this team when we already have a back up Harrellson that does all the things Moose is unable to do.  

Somewhere a team is in need of a starting center and we are in need of a starting PF or SF it only makes sense.  But I don't think anyone has suggested gutting the roster and Moose is the be it all to it all with that starting unit or the team as a whole. Why is everyone so afraid that if his ass gets traded for a PF that actually fits this team is going to fall apart.
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Vincent Goodwill's article " Someone has to step up" is so off point why bother to include that nonsense in today's paper?

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:16 pm

Good old Vincent either has no clue what is going on or is writing what he is told to write. No mention of the blunders made by Joe Dumars in selecting this group of horrible guards. And Mo Cheeks is at a loss to explain what is happening. For sure it can't be the players can it? No our guards are in extremely high demand. That is why Joe Dumars decided t pay Bynum over 5 mil for the next two seasons. Everyone who follows NBA basketball could tell Vincent and Mo Cheeks why Detroit sucks but they can't figure it out and still believe that all it will take is for someone to step up and play better. Yes according to the experts in Detroit, we don't need better guards who can actually defend and play hard like the other NBA guards on other teams who keep kicking our guards asses. Joe can't see it. Mo can't figure it out. And Vincent Goodwill is really puzzled as well. The fans have figured it out and that is why we TV viewers can expect to see a lot of empty seats again this year. Can the owners figure out what is wrong and if so will they fire those employees who can't figure it out? Mo Cheeks is simply covering for his buddy Joe Dumars. That is what good friends do.

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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:54 pm

Let's make lottsa trades... or we could keep the pieces that could still work (ie. Afflalo, Middleton, Amir etc.)... just sayin' watch whatcha ask for.
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Seb, Seb, Seb...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:53 pm

Sebastian wrote:While scouring all of the NBA blogs and message boards, there is not a peep of any chatter about a potential trade or trades involving OUR Pistons.

OUR roster needs more than a damn line-up change, as has been discussed by Mo'. Forgive me, but starting Singler in the place of Josh or Moose is not going to solve a damn thing! Joe 

You really have to keep up with the times!

You can reach Joe any time you want, but obviously you don't know how! Joe is always available via his shoe phone, a time honored way of communicating with the rich & powerful!

 

Or if that doesn't float your boat, Cheeks can loan you a shoe phone, once he pulls it out of, well, his butt cheeks, left there by that woman from Atlanta!

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Joe, where are you?

Post  Sebastian on Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:23 pm

While scouring all of the NBA blogs and message boards, there is not a peep of any chatter about a potential trade or trades involving OUR Pistons.

OUR roster needs more than a damn line-up change, as has been discussed by Mo'. Forgive me, but starting Singler in the place of Josh or Moose is not going to solve a damn thing! Joe 
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RE

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:46 am

Good Points Moose and you might be right. But this is A new team? These guys have not played together for 6 months yet. Keep that in mind. Now are they playing like Pussy Boys? Yes!

But they still new and learning each other. Would you fire your wife after 3 months of marriage? If you Kim Kardashian, Yes. But Let's give these guys A little more time. Till the All Star break.
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Gores Not Wrong For Wanting To Win

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:14 am

Phil1980boy wrote:Good Post Moose. Now forward it to Gores. Don't forget to tell him to be careful with the "We better make the playoffs this season." Remind him how the Pacers rebuild took several years. Also the Seattle Super Sonics rebuild took years as well before they made the Finals A few years ago.

Tell him to win in A market like Michigan it's going to take some time and If he was smart he would have some patience and drop that "we better make the playoffs S.H.I.T.

Also, tell him to never PULL that Hollywood, Phil Jackson ADVISER, type of S.H.I.T. ever again.

Here the problem with that above comment. First the organization never validated it a rebuilding which might have bought both time and patience for Joe and this team. Second you don't fire coaches if your rebuilding at some point Joe was thinking or he was at least feeding Gores the illusion that the playoffs were possible otherwise Burke would likely have been drafted and given time and Knight would still be on this roster if this was a rebuilding process. At some point Joe had to convince Gores that it (playoffs) were possible with the addition of Jennings 24 Million and Smith 55 Million because you don't spend like this until you're ready to compete. You do this when you're sure about what you have or when you're uncertain with what you have.

Well Joe asked for the Phil Jackson thing because he failed miserably with Curry, Kuester, and Frank and who can blame Gores for consulting a coach with 11 Championship Rings. Joe can't live off the success of 2004 forever. asking that this team finish with a 5 seed or better in a weak conference isn't asking for the impossible so Gores request isn't unreasonable at all. Moose is a 4 year veteran, and Jennings has 5 seasons, Josh has 8 seasons, Bynum has just as many, Stuckey has 6 seasons Charlie has 8 or 9 seasons, Chauncey has like forever seasons, nothing about this roster says it rebuilding. When you really think about is this team should performing at the level of the 2002 and 2003 rosters those squads won 50 games in both seasons. Think about this for a minute there are 5 top 10 lottery picks starting on this team 8 players in total selected selected in the top 15, 9 really if you toss in Singler and Mitchell both projected as 1st round picks and this team is dumb as doors with no doorknobs..

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MOOSEFAN

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:34 am

Good Post Moose. Now forward it to Gores. Don't forget to tell him to be careful with the "We better make the playoffs this season." Remind him how the Pacers rebuild took several years. Also the Seattle Super Sonics rebuild took years as well before they made the Finals A few years ago.

Tell him to win in A market like Michigan it's going to take some time and If he was smart he would have some patience and drop that "we better make the playoffs S.H.I.T.

Also, tell him to never PULL that Hollywood, Phil Jackson ADVISER, type of S.H.I.T. ever again.
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Reality What?

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:41 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:I'm not ready to quit on this team just yet. Yes, this team has been A major let down. But they got potential. Let's be real. This team has major parts but no big time guy to lead the pack. Guys have potential. Monroe and Drummonds are the top two but they not ready at this point.

Smith is solid but he not A Melo Anthony, Lebron James, James Harden or Paul George. So it is what it is.


Keep working and eventually things can get better. But I would not touch the starting 5.

Reality Check is that Joe tenure is based upon the results of this season so even if this team squeaks into a 7th or 8th seed of the playoffs it's still deemed an overall failure considering the 20 plus million he shelled out in a season that it playoff or bust with him.

Reality Check that arena is still more than half empty. Reality Check is how is Joe going to get that Big Time Guy to lead this pack? Do you honestly think that magically one is going to be sent to us by way of CV and Stuckey expiring contracts? No the only way this happens is my moving Moose with either one or both those expiring contracts.

Honestly I'm not oppose to this team not making the playoffs and that luck rears its wonderful head and we end up with an eight pick or better and keep next years draft pick since is the last year it's protected. Still this team needs to cut ties with Moose and not haggle over paying him over the summer (This is really why he needs to be trade) keeping him means over paying him and if he doesn't improve some GM is going to look really stupid. We can't start Drummond and Moose period, its not working.
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Reality Check

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:12 pm

I'm not ready to quit on this team just yet. Yes, this team has been A major let down. But they got potential. Let's be real. This team has major parts but no big time guy to lead the pack. Guys have potential. Monroe and Drummonds are the top two but they not ready at this point.

Smith is solid but he not A Melo Anthony, Lebron James, James Harden or Paul George. So it is what it is.


Keep working and eventually things can get better. But I would not touch the starting 5.
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Yes Joe Needs To Be Fired

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:33 pm

Oracle wrote:Well, we usually disagree when you get stubborn about some positions that you take, and I guess I get that way too at times, but IMO, you've just seen thing the right way, and I can't help but agree!

But as you said, you may be good, and while you were mostly right about Monroe, we will still disagree about trading him, at least for now!

Joe is starting to piss me off because he doesn't appear to relate to the kind of players that get better when the game is on the line!

They have a name for those types of players.... WINNERS!!!

He passed on a winner in Melo to take Darko!

He passed on Burke & MCW, both winners to get KCP, who I like, but you simply can't pass on winners!

He just doesn't relate to these types of players, so he's always looking to find a guy like Chauncey or RIP that's ready to break out, or some diamond in the rough, instead of taking the sure thing!

I'm reluctantly thinking that I may have to consider that the only to change this culture is to get rid of Joe if he can't get it right!

Joe better at least consult with Cheeks to get a feel for what Cheeks plans are, but if the season so far is any indication, Cheeks never seems to know what he's going to do from day to day!

I've never seen a head coach that is so indecisive about lineups an things associated with his own freaking team that he controls!

An yes, he's totally handled the Josh Smith issues poorly, and IMO, that hurts the whole team when he does stupid stuff like that!

Oracle these are things that have puzzled and not puzzled me about Joe Dumars and Cheeks and why I've been screaming for Joe head since 2007. Their both NBA Champions, they were both clutch players on both sides of the ball, they both played with Elite Players Moses, Dr. J, Zeke and against the best talent ever. Joe was a NBA Finals MVP so they should know what Winners look like when they see them so it puzzles the sh!t out me when he does things that makes no freaking sense.

Now the reason I'm not puzzled is that Joe is caught up with himself, and he tries to find that little of himself in players he draft, or trade for. Yes he saw a little of himself in Stuckey, Pope, English, Gordon, Chauncey and so on. Joe was a Combo Guard so he fancies Combo Guards, he fancies small school players like he was. Somehow in Joe's little head he thinks Jennings is the next AI, somehow he thinks KCP is the next him just like he thought with Stuckey. Passing on Burke is like passing on Zeke and I don't think theirs any love lost their considering how thing turned out for both. Joe saw Zeke in Burke and passed on him and that's strange because Joe would have been nothing without Zeke. Gores an idiot for allowing it.

I know you don't agree and I've been saying it forever that 2004 was a fluke and the dummy been trying to replicate it ever since and don't know how. Joe didn't realize he had a Championship Team until they won it and he manage to fu@k that up.


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A couple of Housekeeping Notes

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:07 pm

GREAT win by State tonight! They started out slow, down by 10, but defensively they dominated Stanford from late in the 1st half through the end of the game!

We needed that, and it was a great win for the Big 10! Now let's see if Ohio State can take care of their business in the Orange Bowl!

Lastly, say goodbye to the head of the Fresh Prince of Bell Aire. Dies today after complications of a heart operation.

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Wise

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:02 pm

Well, we usually disagree when you get stubborn about some positions that you take, and I guess I get that way too at times, but IMO, you've just seen thing the right way, and I can't help but agree!

But as you said, you may be good, and while you were mostly right about Monroe, we will still disagree about trading him, at least for now!

Joe is starting to piss me off because he doesn't appear to relate to the kind of players that get better when the game is on the line!

They have a name for those types of players.... WINNERS!!!

He passed on a winner in Melo to take Darko!

He passed on Burke & MCW, both winners to get KCP, who I like, but you simply can't pass on winners!

He just doesn't relate to these types of players, so he's always looking to find a guy like Chauncey or RIP that's ready to break out, or some diamond in the rough, instead of taking the sure thing!

I'm reluctantly thinking that I may have to consider that the only to change this culture is to get rid of Joe if he can't get it right!

Joe better at least consult with Cheeks to get a feel for what Cheeks plans are, but if the season so far is any indication, Cheeks never seems to know what he's going to do from day to day!

I've never seen a head coach that is so indecisive about lineups an things associated with his own freaking team that he controls!

An yes, he's totally handled the Josh Smith issues poorly, and IMO, that hurts the whole team when he does stupid stuff like that!
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Hey Oracle

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:51 pm

LOL! Dang Oracle normally we both would be at opposite ends of quite a bit. Glad we're agreeing on most, but we still got Moose to disagree on  lol 

There's still opportunity to get that lead assistant in here since that door was left open once Hollins decline and then Cheeks decided not to have one so he doesn't necessarily have to promote any current assistant as a Lead Assistant he can always hire one. There's still Hope

I have to admit that I was wrong about Cheeks with this team, I don't think he's a bad coach just not the right one at this stage of the team development. I think he too hard on Josh for the wrong reasons, and not with players he's need to be hard on.

I agree that it's not all Cheeks and that Joe must suck up some blame here as well because this roster remains unbalance and lacks certain skilled players. Both Datome and Pope are scorers and not shooters, I don't think that this is something Cheeks can fix and should be considered a coaching problem. Not a knock on the two players but they are scores not shooters and Joe played this NBA 2013K when he put it together.

I think "Joe's Vision" sucked big time, because he added all the wrong pieces to what should be working wonders at this point (Josh, Andre & Moose) Burke was the only missing piece keeping Knight and Middleton would have been huge right now. Our Big Three needed a PG leader and 2 shooters.
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Interesting article...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:55 pm

Ranking Maurice Cheeks' options for Detroit Pistons lineup changes

The top option with 60% probability is... Do Nothing!!

However, the #2 option is, IMO the one to go with: Singler in, KCP out!

Why? Well with Singler in, we get better scoring and greater size, but less defense. However, it's not great defense that we need starting games.

This also moves KCP to facing scrubs that he should be able to dominate, and also will allow him to get the ball more and hopefully LEAD a 2nd unit!

IMO, this would be a great move for KCP more than Singler, who will only be holding the spot warm for somebody else! Singler isn't a SG, and it's likely that he isn't even a starting SF on a good team at this point, but he's a very smart and capable player who has a bright future in the NBA if he continues to grow.
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Once again, Wise is right on point!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:32 pm

Phillip makes a point, but what's missing with his point is the WHY(see item 2)? Why is it that the closing 5 is what needs to be changed?

Here's the real reason we lost to the Wizards and others, and it has little to do with shooting or defense, they're SYMPTOMS, not the problem! Just like in football, if the offense keeps turning over the ball, the defense will look pretty bad simply out of the laws of probability that the other team, with so many chances will beat them!

So why did we lose the game? Well, it's 90% coaching, and here's why! Even Larry Frank would have done better!

1. Cheeks has no plays for this team... none! All they do is as Don said, come down the court, make an entry pass, and ask somebody to beat their man! BTW, that works pretty well early in games, but teams generally aren't dumb enough to let them get away with that simple of an offense in the 4th!

2. Cheeks never makes adjustments! He'll go the entire game and never monitor matchups so that he can get the right 5 players on the court in the 4th! Larry Brown was a master at this, he always knew who to put in because he watched how the matchups went throughout the game! Cheeks prefers to sit with fans to generate PR Buzz!

3. He gets out coached on a nightly basis! The Wizards played him like a drum! They played one way through 3.5 quarters, but deep into the 4th, they changed how they defended Josh, shut down Jennings, which is shockingly easy for teams, and totally disrupted the offense! With absolutely no plays to go to, and no ball movement, the Pistons score 12 points! Disgusting!!!

4. But it's not all Cheeks! When I watch players like Wall, Knight, Irving and other PG's, it's clear that they go into another mode when the game is on the line! We don't have one player like that on this team, the closest is Will Bynum, and what does that tell you!

There is a reason that the scouting report on Cheeks is that he's successful when he has veteran players... because they don't have to listen to his ass! He's a great assistant coach for guards, but not for a team of young players!

So while it looks like defense is the problem, and it could improve, it's that when you score 12 freaking points in a quarter, that means you're giving the opposing team way too many opportunities to score on you, and in the NBA, you'll get beat every time!

Good shooting covers this up, but good coaching solves the problem long term!

But let's give a shout out to Joe Dumars, who I've defended through thick and thin!

I talked about those players that have the skills and balls to want the ball in the 4th and can deliver... These are the guys Joe gets rid of!!!

AfflaloKnight loom large because they're doing all of the things we sorely need, and LOVED being Pistons before Joe kicked them to the curb! I don't mind moving players, but for Christ's sake man, get some freaking value out of the deal!!!

You can't keep moving stellar players for junk players and hope to compete!

Also, you can't keep punting on getting a good coach! As others have said, seek out a rising assistant or something like he did with Carlisle!

IMO, the best way to handle the Cheeks situation is to get a really good assistant to go with him, and hopefully eventually move him aside, but we can't fire him too soon for a variety of reasons, both political and business!

I've been saying this for a while, and I'm glad Wise is coming to the same conclusion!
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GET IT TOGETHER CHEEKS

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:58 pm

Chuck: Was a "When To Coach" Chuck knew it was a players league and allowed to play he just needed to give them a goal and allow them to get them to reach it. In other words Chuck knew how to not stand in the way of the team talent to allow Zeke, Bill and Rick to control the team. Cheeks may or may not have 2 of this types of players on this team if he gets out the way (Josh and Brandon)

Collins: Was a "How To Coach" Collins was going to teach his players how to play the game and make it fun for them. Collins was going to teach the fundamental of the game, he was a winner but just not a Next Level coach. He prove successful both here and in Chicago but wasn't the coach that would deliver a Championship. His teams played the whole 48 minutes

Brown: Was a "Going To Coach" In that you played the way he wanted you to and that's the only way or sit your ass on the bench. Of course his way meant the right way. Can you imagine both Moose and Jennings in LB's Doghouse about right now, I certainly can see it.

Saunders: Was a "Plan To Coach" Like it or not Flip always had a plan and a full arsenal of offensive and defensive plays at his disposal. Flip was like the Nutty Professor and those to scientist in Flubber and Back To The Future always almost on the verge of something spectacular but not quite there. His missing ingredient was always a lack of bench players he had a starting unit that rivaled the best of them but beyond that nothing. His plans were usually flawless until you tossed a monkey wrench in it which seem to happen every ECF in a game 6.

Three Stooges: Was a "Bad Dream" really nothing to say other than that the Teal Years were light years better.

Cheeks: Is a "Not Sure How Coach" I'm sure he's a smart guy and I idolized him growing up and pretend I was Mo in pick up games. He was quiet calm never forcing a shoot, never demanding the ball, always in control played against some of the most elite PG in the game. He has to be brilliant as a coach at least one would think but he seemed lost and all these great attributes as a player seem to hurt his coaching ability. It's a difference in being admired as a coach then being respected as a coach and I don't think the team respects him, they love and admire him but not unconditionally. I think he knows what to do just not how to do it. Perhaps he needs to stop pampering this team and start inter-channeling a little of Chuck, Larry, Doug and Flip which he likely has inside. Collins - Play Hard, Flip - Play Smart, Chuck - Play Focus, and Larry - Play The Right Way




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changes to the starting 5 LOL! How about the closing 5 ?!?!?!?

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:46 pm

Forget the starting 5. Believe it or not they not that bad. FT shooting is the 2nd problem behind Defense.

But some how they find A way to get leads in games. Good leads TOO! It's closing that needs help. Same issue with the Detroit Tigers.

Defense and closing are Cheeks issues to worry about. Not who starts. The starting 5 are good.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:05 pm

Oracle wrote:"There is so much lack of movement it looks like all the players need to take a bowel movement. They are afraid to move or something might come out and stain their uniforms." - Don

 lol  Don, you had me rolling with that one, LOL!

But it's so true, and some of us have been saying this about Singler, and wondering why in the world these guys haven't learned how to move without the ball!! Well, this is why we keep saying that Singler is so important to this team, and why a one year player stands out so much... It's all about the Fundamentals!!!

"Also, leaving Singler on the floor in the fourth (in place of one of the frontline guys) could help. After a slow start, Singler has upped his three-point shooting percentage to 36% for the season. His presence could create more spacing, and he’s the best on the team moving without the ball." - Josh Smith off bench? Kyle Singler to start? Changes to Detroit Pistons' rotation could be in store

It's good to know that even the talking heads are beginning to recognize the more important things, but truth be told, it takes big problems before some folks realize that you have to have fundamentally sound players to win!

Oracle good point relating to Singler who is by far the most fundamentally sound player on the team. He does need to be in the game at the end. But will his teammates pass the basketball to him? He is almost always open. But our point guards seem to always play the left side of the court and seldom reverse the basketball to the opposite side. That is why the team is so easy to guard in the half court most of the time. The 2 guard does not move well without the basketball. The big men do not set proper screens for the 2 guard so the point guard can pass him the basketball. It makes for really dull basketball if you are a Piston fan.

But the number one problem with this team is Joe Dumars and the guards he has signed. No team can be successful with this combination of guards. In the previous post there is a discussion on that problem where the coach has no good choices. Billups and Bynum should not be on the court at all. But who does the coach bring in now that Stuckey is injured again? We need to trade Stuckey now for a guard and buy out Bynum's contract and bring in a CBA guard with some size who can play defense. But we cannot trust that Joe Dumars will have the skill to select any new players especially at the guard position.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:48 pm

MOOSEFAN wrote:1. Start Rodney or Trade him either way bringing him off the bench is really not the optimal option. I said he should be starting since the beginning of the season.

2. Trade Moose or bring him off the Bench, in either case both are better options then having him in the starting unit. I've been saying trade him since back in July and nothing has change my thinking.

3. Stop playing Chauncey and Will, somewhere either in the league or D-League are two better choices at the backup PG spot and Joe needs to stop playing pussy on correcting this issue when he has all the resources available to correct this. This is why I'm always screaming to fire his ass.

4. Give Pope the "Green Light"  You drafted him with the 8th overall pick, so treat him as such!  He was before we drafted him was the man in college, but he had the "Green Light" to jack up shots.  Either way Starting Pope or bringing him off the Bench he needs to be giving the "Freedom" to do what he does best and that's score.  

5. Quit or Look at the film of some Past Detroit Pistons Coaches (Chuck, Larry, Flip and Doug) Winners it look like you open the wrong cans of film (Micheal, John, Lil Larry) Losers. I can only imagine what either of the four earlier mentioned coaches would be doing with this team. One thing is for certain Josh would be a whole different kind of Beast under them, and so would Jennings, and Andre and you can bet on them collectively playing far better defense.  Far too much length on this team that the defense ranks last.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

Moosefan thanks for this post. This is what I think.

1. Stuckey: Detroit has no adequate guard to bring off the bench who can score and play average defense. Stuckey does both but he is not dependable as a player which is a fact not guess work. Stuckey usually is in the game at the end when he is not injured but he is not a closing type of guard because he is not a really good player when playing half court basketball which you have to do well in crunch time. Even though Stuckey was playing much better before the recent set of injuries, he still is not earning his 8.5 million dollars a year salary. TRADE HIM NOW!!!

2. Monroe: Monroe played a lot better in this last game and even bent his legs on defense at least on two of the Wizards possessions. I think he has a cardio issue because he always looks tired on the court. Failing to take quick little steps in the paint and not working for positioning shows all coaches that those players are not in proper game shape. He has played a lot of minutes but still reaches on defense and is too tired to bend his knees into a crouch like a real basketball player. Monroe is a liability to this team because of that. He is at his peak value right now so trade him but first fire Joe Dumars and let another GM make the trades. How can we trust what Joe will do?

3. Moosefan you are so right about this one. But what worries me is what Mo Cheeks said in the last post game press conference. He said "I trust both Billups and Bynum". They caused that run that killed Detroit's chances of winning the last game and Cheeks makes that statement. Is he watching or sleeping? You cannot play Billups and Bynum together but then again, you can't play Jennings and Bynum together or Jennings and Billups together either. All three players are horrible defenders. Billups has too many injuries that prevents him from getting in proper game shape to defend anyone. The other 3 players have no excuses. They are young and horrible defensive guards. Either KCP has to play the entire game to help the defense or Singler must move to the 2 guard for defensive purposes which Cheeks has done at times. What bothered me especially in the last game was how bad Bynum and Billups played together but Cheeks did not notice at all so we can expect more of the same.

4. KCP: In the first half of the last game, KCP moved hard without the basketball and scored 17 points. That is the first time I have seen him really work to get open. But in the second half he didn't move or demand the basketball. KCP is not ready for prime time. His body is not ready. In the 2nd half of the last game, KCP was too tired and missed every shot attempt. He has been missing a lot of shots all season. It is a tough adjustment for a rookie to play a lot of minutes at the 2 guard position. He is not ready but the team needs his defense which is better than all the other guards on this handicapped team.

5. Coaching: Can you coach effort? I think not when it comes to the NBA. Other owners and GMs would not sign the players our owners and Joe Dumars have signed. Pure and simple, we do not have players who are as good as most of the other teams in the NBA. It is a players league. I saw Drummond laughing when he was taken out of the last game after he had been lagging up and down the court getting his ass beat by a scrub center on the Wizards. Sure he is only 20 years old but that is a sign to me that he is not pissed off with himself. None of the players except Jennings seems to be pissed off when things are getting out of control. Jennings does want to win but I have my doubts about some of the other starters. Joe Dumars has created a culture on the Pistons. Remember he didn't stand up when the players missed that practice in Toronto. Nothing happened to those players. I think Cheeks has come to terms with the lack of quality players on this team and knows that many of the current members of the team just cannot compete on a nightly basis with other NBA players. Put these Piston guards on any other NBA team with the best coach in the world and the result would be the same. Those players would lose and make their teammates look really bad. To me a dead giveaway to identify players who are really not interested in improving is looking at their free throw percentage from year to year. If you missed a few free throws that cost your team a game or two, wouldn't you work your ass off to get the free throw shot down. It is only a matter of practice and proper technique. If a player is practicing but does not improve, that means that the player is not really very coachable. Detroit has managed to become the worst free throw shooting team and the worst defensive team in the league. We need different players and then we can evaluate the coaching staff. But most of all, we need a new GM really bad.

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Don, Movement & Singler

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:21 pm

"There is so much lack of movement it looks like all the players need to take a bowel movement. They are afraid to move or something might come out and stain their uniforms." - Don

 lol  Don, you had me rolling with that one, LOL!

But it's so true, and some of us have been saying this about Singler, and wondering why in the world these guys haven't learned how to move without the ball!! Well, this is why we keep saying that Singler is so important to this team, and why a one year player stands out so much... It's all about the Fundamentals!!!

"Also, leaving Singler on the floor in the fourth (in place of one of the frontline guys) could help. After a slow start, Singler has upped his three-point shooting percentage to 36% for the season. His presence could create more spacing, and he’s the best on the team moving without the ball." - Josh Smith off bench? Kyle Singler to start? Changes to Detroit Pistons' rotation could be in store

It's good to know that even the talking heads are beginning to recognize the more important things, but truth be told, it takes big problems before some folks realize that you have to have fundamentally sound players to win!
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Good job Oracle on Knight

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:59 pm

Many Piston fans most likely were not aware of Knight's injury in his first game with the Bucks. Some were laughing and saying that Joe Dumars was correct about Knight relating to his ineffectiveness at the point guard position. I had been sticking up for Knight as much as anyone all last year and the year before that. Some of us who are not employed with the Detroit Pistons could easily see that he had the right stuff to become an elite player in this league. This guy is never satisfied with his game. He always works his ass off to improve in his weak areas and Knight is much smarter than the average NBA player. Is there anyone else who fits that mold that has played for the Pistons? Yes you are right - A. Affalo. Knight and Affalo had something while playing for the Pistons that no other Piston player had at the time when they wore the Piston uniform. They both dedicated themselves to become better all around defenders. Is Joe Dumars insane? What in hell is wrong with the owners as well. Are they idiots who believe what Joe is telling them? Most be Dumars was listening to some fans on this forum who kept saying that Knight will never be a point guard. And Joe somehow ignored the fact that Calderon couldn't do any better at the point guard position as Knight last year. What point guard could make that team click? So for those posters and fans out there, please tell me what makes for a good point guard in today's game?? Our Piston point guards now dribble a lot and then make an entry pass. Why can't KCP do that? What does it take to dribble up the court and make the first pass? That is where the point guard duties end for Piston point guards. They either pass it once or shoot it. And our Piston guards as a group have another thing in common. No Piston guard can play really good defense and all but KCP are a real liability on defense. And KCP is far from an adequate defensive guard. The problem all point guards have had on this team and previous teams in the last 5 years is having elite players to pass the basketball to in the half court offense. Joe has stacked the team with players who have a lot of flaws. Also, our big men are not very good at setting picks or multiple picks on one half court possession. There is so much lack of movement it looks like all the players need to take a bowel movement. They are afraid to move or something might come out and stain their uniforms. Our guards cannot stop dribble penetration. Other NBA guards can shoot over them. What about that Mr. Dumars?? As dX has pointed out many times, why in hell did Dumars give his buddy Hammond two starters for a point guard the Bucks didn't want to sign to a new contract?

Dumars needs to be fired before he makes another huge mistake with this team. He is inept as a leader. Jennings, Bynum, Billups and Stuckey are the crew Joe has in place. No guard can come off the bench and make stops on defense. The Wizards have two guards that can do that. Joe had a soft spot for L. Hunter which cost Detroit maybe two additional championships. He had a soft spot for Maxiell. He had a soft spot for Daye and now has his new pet under a new two year contract, Will Bynum. Did Will Bynum ever do any of the things that Nate Robinson has done for the teams he has played for? Didn't Robinson kick all of our guards asses in previous years especially Will Bynum's ass? And Joe gives Bynum this 5 plus million dollar contract to go with Billups 2.5 million dollar contract. No wonder Mo Cheeks appears in the post game press conference looking like he is taking depression medication. This give away of Affalo, Budinger, Middleton and Knight along with giving away our number one pick in order to trade another mistake in Gordon, has killed Detroit's chances of looking like a real NBA team for a long time. Who cares about our young big men? In the end you always win big games with great guards. Joe Dumars has continued on the same path for too long. He doesn't believe in having tough two way playing guards. He is now known as the worst GM in the NBA. Are the Detroit News and Free Press reporters cowards? Are they afraid to ask real questions and demand answers??? Gores should sell the team and move back to L.A.. He must be part of the problem.

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B. Knight

Post  Sebastian on Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:18 pm

Oracle wrote:Seb, I could show you the highlights of what BK7 did to the Lakers, on the road, but that was a blowout, and he's obviously the scoring leader and the man for the Bucks!

However, the clip I will show, shows what we're really missing in losing Brandon Knight!

This clip is from this month, again, on the road against the Wizards! This is interesting from the following standpoints.

1. The Wizards were able to contain Jennings with ease, using only one man in the 4th! In this video, you'll see that John Wall is defenseless against BK7, and the entire Wizard team couldn't contain BK7 when the game was on the line!

2. His combination of speed and size is killing the Wizards, he's doing what he needs to do to get scores from anywhere on the floor, and if they cut that off, BK7 takes it to the rim... the kid is impressive!

3. If you watch the timeouts, BK7 is very active and vocal in the huddle

4. While he can't shut down Wall, he's capable of limiting what he does, and that alone allows you to beat the Wiz.

Here's the clip!


Oracle, thanks for sharing. I actually saw so some of that game on TV, somewhere.

But, you are right about B. Knight. What was one of the first things that was said about B. Knight, when he landed in Detroit after his Draft night: The Detroit media and even Joe's rather large ass, even, spoke highly of Knight's intellect. Everybody spoke about the kids high-level of intelligence and yes, his leadership skills.

And, Joe was bedazzled by Jennings' street ball style and traded B. Knight for B. Jennings and Joe did what he always does he gives the new player the traded or otherwise acquired player's jersey number (#7 and #1, #3, #6, #10, #32, #33).

But, the thing that I noticed in each highlight from the video - B. Jennings started each offensive possession from the top of the key area on the floor. When watching B. Jennings, he starts half court sets from the right side of the floor, this may be a result of him being left-handed.

And, like you eluded to in your previous post. He can't check the bigger/stronger point guards (John Wall, Chris Paul, Darren Williams, Jrue Holiday, Westbrook, Brandon Jennings, etc.) and is not as good as guards closer to his size (Kyrie Irving, Damian Lilliard, Jeff Teague).
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