Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

Don, I really hope Jennings works out, because I don't want Joe chasing after that loon Rondo!

Rajon Rondo claims he ‘didn’t feel anything’ upon hearing of Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce leaving Boston

Take a look at that article, Rondo is just plain STRANGE, IMO!

BTW, I totally disagree about Larry Brown! You're looking at one situation out of thousands. LB created Chauncey, he forced ultra conditioning on his team, he was a master of superior plays coming out of timeouts, and he also substituted better than anybody I've ever seen!

LB was a great coach, and NOBODY on that team ever wanted to make a mistake and face him coming back to the bench! DISCIPLINE was his calling card, and his teams showed it.

Contrast that to when the same players didn't listen to Flip and became a jump shooting team in 2005! Lack of discipline doomed us and cost us more championships(along with Joe's failure to get a quality bench).

I hear you Oracle. I fear Rondo as well. So why in hell did Joe trade Brandon Knight in the first place?

[cool breeze]

Don, I really hope Jennings works out, because I don't want Joe chasing after that loon Rondo!

Rajon Rondo claims he ‘didn’t feel anything’ upon hearing of Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce leaving Boston

Take a look at that article, Rondo is just plain STRANGE, IMO!

BTW, I totally disagree about Larry Brown! You're looking at one situation out of thousands. LB created Chauncey, he forced ultra conditioning on his team, he was a master of superior plays coming out of timeouts, and he also substituted better than anybody I've ever seen!

LB was a great coach, and NOBODY on that team ever wanted to make a mistake and face him coming back to the bench! DISCIPLINE was his calling card, and his teams showed it.

Contrast that to when the same players didn't listen to Flip and became a jump shooting team in 2005! Lack of discipline doomed us and cost us more championships(along with Joe's failure to get a quality bench).

Oracle I respectfully disagree. I once admired Larry Brown the way he played ball and became an excellent coach in the ABA with the Denver Nuggets and many other destinations. But he never liked being in Detroit or coaching the Pistons. He spent more time talking to the press during practice than watching what was going on. Of course he was in pain and was taking strong medication and that is why I suspect he was caught sleeping during a game in Phoenix that I attended. Yes, I saw him clearly sleeping after my wife brought it to my attention. We were sitting pretty close to the Piston bench. I will never understand why he was driven to make C. Williamson a power forward in training camp and never let go of that idea all season. It never worked. He ruined any chance that Memo would sign another contract with Detroit. Why did he hate Okur? As for Billups, he became a quality player in his last season with the Timberwolves before coming to Detroit. Remember Billups launching all those 3 pointers in crunch time which kept the Pistons in so many games. He took a lot of crap from Brown for taking those shots. But my worst memory of Brown was during a timeout in San Antonio during the finals when he looked into the television camera and said "I love you guys". If NBA TV ever replays that game please watch for that moment. None of the players were listening to him at the time. It all looked so staged and that he wanted more attention. He played the Piston management and wanted to walk away from the team but still collect his contract money. Davidson hated him. Was Brown mentally stable towards the end of his tenure with Detroit? Was he a extremely unpredictable individual around the players? Did he fake some of the stuff he did to piss off Davidson so he could move back East to be with his family? Or was some of that stuff caused from the medication he was taking for pain in his hips and other joints. At any rate, Davidson and Dumars had their fill of Larry Brown and so did the players. Now being you are the Oracle, I expect you to investigate further and enter Larry Brown's mind to make him confess his true feelings about coaching the Pistons. Could be I am wrong and maybe he did all that stuff because Dumars refused to sign a quality combo guard and instead kept bringing back his buddy, Hunter for another go.

[Oracle]

Don, I really hope Jennings works out, because I don't want Joe chasing after that loon Rondo!

Rajon Rondo claims he ‘didn’t feel anything’ upon hearing of Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce leaving Boston

Take a look at that article, Rondo is just plain STRANGE, IMO!

BTW, I totally disagree about Larry Brown! You're looking at one situation out of thousands. LB created Chauncey, he forced ultra conditioning on his team, he was a master of superior plays coming out of timeouts, and he also substituted better than anybody I've ever seen!

LB was a great coach, and NOBODY on that team ever wanted to make a mistake and face him coming back to the bench! DISCIPLINE was his calling card, and his teams showed it.

Contrast that to when the same players didn't listen to Flip and became a jump shooting team in 2005! Lack of discipline doomed us and cost us more championships(along with Joe's failure to get a quality bench).

[cool breeze]

I am starting to believe that Cheeks will place the right players in the rotation. He is not a guy who plots strategy in his basement at night and regardless of what is going on during practice or games will change that strategy. I have never understood that kind of mind set but have belonged to coaching staffs that practiced it. We saw it over and over with the past two Piston head coaches and especially with Frank. Cheeks knows what is going on during practice and games and will identify which players he can count on really quick. I read stuff from fans who believe certain players should be in a rotation before those players have demonstrated they deserve court time. This has happened with rookie Mitchell who is now projected to play in the D-League along with Siva. This is not a bad avenue for those two players who will get to perform in real games and prepare themselves for their opportunity. And that could happen sooner than later with this team.

Some still believe that Larry Brown had a lot to do with Detroit winning a championship. I disagree and believe the players were able to rise above Brown's antics and his need to attention. You only have to go to game 5 of the playoff series with the Nets when Brown sat two quality big men during the overtime period after Billups made a half court shot at the buzzer to tie the game. Brown decided to go small with Corless and Darvin Ham when the Nets were out of big men. There was a revolt after Billups was upset after that game and said he had nobody to pass the ball to. Billups and company decided to do things their way to overcome their nutty coach. Billups made himself into the player who won that MVP trophy not Larry Brown.

But now we have an entirely new situation with Mo Cheeks. He does not want attention. All he wants to do is help his players become better so the team will perform well enough to win a lot of games. He cannot perform miracles with Jennings, Stuckey or Bynum. He knows the weak spot is not shooting guard but rather the point guard position. Will Jennings remain a weak defender and a shoot first point guard? Is it possible for a player to change completely in those two areas even with an outstanding coach helping them out? I believe that Cheeks will not tolerate anything less than what he knows is best for the team. Jennings must know that his coach does mean business and would not hesitate to create a spot for Brandon at the end of the bench. And it could end up that Jennings will try as hard as he can but just won't be able to do what is asked of him. It won't be the first time that has happened. Can Billups have one lucky season where he will be able to play free from injury and still have his magic on the court? I hope so Piston fans. If not, then perhaps we might see Rondo after all. What I am feeling good about is that the Pistons have a head coach who does not like drama and has no ego. He was a star player who did the right thing as a player. Nothing has changed with this man. We can be proud that he is setting the course for this new team.

[lemonpen]

Jennings should have kept his mouth closed after the trade. Instead he advised the media that he is looking forward to playing with better big men. Larry Sanders must have had words along with a lot of other players on Jennings team last season. That locker room must have been hot at times because they sure is not love when Jennings name is mentioned to Larry Sanders. Ellis, who is also a shoot first kind of player far exceeded Jennings in assists to Sanders. Sanders was quoted by the press in response to Jennings statement about playing with better bigs that "he needs to pass it to them first".

I really wonder if Joe Dumars actually looked at Jennings assist rate or knew that Jennings was not liked at all by his teammates. Cheeks cannot do the impossible and that is what will be expected of him. My advise to Mo is don't take any crap at all and start helping Siva who is his kind of player.  

No really, thanks.  That kind of criticism is just what Mo needed to help get his point accross to Jennings.  It is very public;  stinging & memorable; comes from within the NBA brotherhood;  is voiced by a former teammate;  and comes from a player with NBA chops.  The comment was very much like Jennings getting slugged in the mouth (again), but this time on video.  The comments now ring loudly in the minds of Jennings current teammates.  Mo could not have purchased this kind of motivation.

Three cheers for Larry Sanders.      

[lemonpen]

@DX- As you'll see in my response to Merc, the sad thing is that all of the logic about KCP, no matter how solid, is likely to take a back seat to the hard cold realities of business in the NBA! Stuckey has a value that we need in the worst way, and that may drive the decision, unfortunate as it may be! As you'll also see below, in my answer to Don, I think Jennings is going to be an adventure, but it will eventually work out!

@Merc - I'm really glad to see Magic put his money where his heart is... back in Michigan! He didn't have to come back here for an investment, but he chose to, and I think he deserves a lot of props for doing that!

On the SG saga, I fear that you may be right! If we were just concerned about developing the team & preparing for a likely playoff appearance, we'd start KCP!

Unfortunately, this is a business, and Stuckey is capable of delivering something to us that will be hard to get in other ways... a chance to get a first round pick in next years draft!

Business dictates that we have to showcase him in the best possible light to drive up his value, and unfortunately, that is likely to slow KCP's ability to start!

That may be what Joe communicated to Cheeks before the hire, and could account for Cheeks high praise of Stuckey... we have to trade him, because the money coming off the books can't buy the pick, and it comes too late!!!

@Don - It's going to be interesting watching how Jennings adapts. My money is on him making the transition, but it may not be easy for him to change!

If you read the language of the first day, you can tell that there is some mild conflict between him and Cheeks already! On day one Cheeks sees the bad Jennings, so he hasn't gotten off on a good footing, jacking up 3 pointers for no good reason! Well, Bynum may have been applying defense on him, but if he can't handle Bynum, he can forget the rest of the guards in the central who are bigger and faster!

Time will tell!

JMO, but Stuckey might look more marketable against backups. Let him continue to bully the lower eschelon, less resistant. Allow his potential suitors to dream and salivate over the possibility of him being a starter on their rosters. Don't start him and provide more video of his weaknesses (no J in a need-a-J-offense).

[PistonPete]

No one's talking about when did lackluster Vincent Goodwill morph into the Microwave, Vinnie Goodwill? With the Mcrowave on board, are we now a lock for the playoffs... or at least, will someone cover the damn team this year. Stay Tuned.

[PistonPete]

"In a couple of year this guy will be a top 50" - 25 Sep 2013


234
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Detroit Pistons
SG | Age: 20 | Stats
2012 rank: NR
@CaldwellPope1

Take it for what its worth. From ESPN-True Hoop Rankings on KCP. Pelton also projects him as a top 50 prospect. He plays very hard. Loves D. Has a good shot. Attacks the rim ferociously. Sees to have Pistons DNA in spades. He didn't come out of the gate in summer league strong. So what. He finished strong, Isn't that what you would want.

What is it? his Southern Accent that keeps him from getting any love? Hootie Hoo

[deusXango]

Can we just see KCP play in a few pre-season games before we annoit him our SG of the future?  I mean he played a couple of good games in that crappy Orlando summer league, but let's face it, he didn't look all that great in Orlando.

And I know he was taken 8th in the draft.  But he was a bit of a surprise pick by Dumars in what will probably turn out to be a lousy draft.

My point is, this guy isn't a lock coming out of the draft, like Andre Drummond or Greg Monroe were.  KCP is more of a Brandon Knight kind of gamble.  

Do I hope KCP works out and develops into the next Allan Houston?  Of course.  But he's far from a sure thing.  

Murph, if memory serves me correctly, we didn't give Allan Houston (#11) the same opportunity we did Lindsey Hunter (#10) to succeed as a Piston, and really didn't appreciate him as a Piston until he became a Knick. He should have been paired with Grant Hill long before he was!!

I think there's a difference between KCP and Knight coming out in the draft; Knight was a gamble that didn't pay off, but I don't see KCP following him down that road. The thing that impressed me about Pope in the Summer League is he got consistently better, on offense, as time went on, but he always played heads up defense.

[deusXango]

If WE want to get the most out of my boy, Stuckey, he will need to be the "Jarret Jack" on OUR roster. Stuckey playing 28-32 minutes will be ideal for this Pistons roster. Chanuce needs to be there when WE need him and a mentor/coach.

Sebastian, we find ourselves in agreement, finally, about how your boy Stuckey should be given a chance to contribute to the team, and redeem himself by how he handles his natural role as a combo guard. The 6th man of the year is where Stuckey's name should be mentioned, something that's way past Chauncey's capabilities; Chauncey Billups (love the guy) is no longer starting material on a team contending for a championship, and if the goal is not to contend for a championship right now, the mindset is f#<ked!! Regardless if they make it or not, the goal should be to bring home the gold, and Chauncey can't be counted on to make that type of run, whereas Stuckey can be a major contributor, off the bench as a backup PG/SG.

[Murph]

Can we just see KCP play in a few pre-season games before we annoit him our SG of the future? I mean he played a couple of good games in that crappy Orlando summer league, but let's face it, he didn't look all that great in Orlando.

And I know he was taken 8th in the draft. But he was a bit of a surprise pick by Dumars in what will probably turn out to be a lousy draft.

My point is, this guy isn't a lock coming out of the draft, like Andre Drummond or Greg Monroe were. KCP is more of a Brandon Knight kind of gamble.

Do I hope KCP works out and develops into the next Allan Houston? Of course. But he's far from a sure thing.

[Sebastian]

Sebastian, that is an absolutely awesome picture/poster of the most talented, current Pistons; where can I obtain one? Thanks for sharing that.

Yo, DX, I'm not sure. I first saw it about a month or so ago at sbnation.com at the DBB website - http://www.detroitbadboys.com/.

But, it is sweet, though.

[Sebastian]

DX, IMO, KCP will get the start at SG unless he completely falls apart! Why?

The simple fact is that nobody else on this team is a SG... PERIOD!

He's the only one that wants the job! Chauncey wants to be the PG, and interestingly, Chauncey gave the EXACT same reason Stuckey gave!

He said that he can't get a rhythm going from the SG position! If he can't get the PG position from Jennings, he would consider the SG position if Jennings shared the PG duties with him. IMO, this is KCP's biggest threat!

Stuckey doesn't want the SG position for the same reasons Chauncey gave, but would also accept a PG sharing role, but it makes less sense than doing it with Chauncey because Stuckey can't shoot!

Then there's the outlier in Singler, who can play SG in a pinch, but is not an SG!

The bottom line is that we should simply accept the growing pains of starting KCP because it's best in the long term, and quite frankly, none of the other choices can beat him defensively!

I always thought most teams started the best defensive player, all things being equal, and KCP fits that bill. In addition, KCP runs the floor WAY better than any of the other options. Stuckey is the closest, but where Stuckey is chunky and jerky, KCP is fast and fluid!

Yup, KCP should start IMO!

Oracle, I agree with you, the logical decision is to start KCP at the SG for the very reasons that you have mentioned. He is a true SG, both physically and mentally. Starting KCP will accelerate his transition to the NBA and help to develop a relation on the floor with B. Jennings.

If WE want to get the most out of my boy, Stuckey, he will need to be the "Jarret Jack" on OUR roster. Stuckey playing 28-32 minutes will be ideal for this Pistons roster. Chanuce needs to be there when WE need him and a mentor/coach.

[Sebastian]

Magic Johnson is buying the old State Fair Ground on 8 mile... turning into theater & shopping.... love hearing this kind of commitment to re-development.

You know, Merc, I wonder just how much influence or rather affect that Jalen Rose's commitment to Detroit has motivated Magic to reinvest in Detroit and the state of Michigan.

Perhaps, Jalen's admiration for Magic has encouraged Magic to return home in a prodigal sense.

[Murph]

Chase Budinger is out indefinitely...again...with a recurring knee injury.  He played only 23 games last year, and 58 games the year before.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9754249/chase-budinger-minnesota-timberwolves-knee-surgery-indefinitely

[deusXango]

"Unfortunately, this is a business, and Stuckey is capable of delivering something to us that will be hard to get in other ways... a chance to get a first round pick in next years draft!"-Oracle

Seriously? A mid first round pick, who's claim to fame is his uncanny ability to show his ass at the drop of a hat, is going to do what exactly to be worth a first round pick in next years draft? Joe overvalues players Oracle, don't you do it. That wouldn't be a sound business decision (playing Stuckey in front of KCP), but a major waste of time driven by delusional thinking. The unspoken bottom line is, some still live in fear of Stuckey going someplace else and transforming into a superstar; ain't going to happen!

[Oracle]

@DX- As you'll see in my response to Merc, the sad thing is that all of the logic about KCP, no matter how solid, is likely to take a back seat to the hard cold realities of business in the NBA! Stuckey has a value that we need in the worst way, and that may drive the decision, unfortunate as it may be! As you'll also see below, in my answer to Don, I think Jennings is going to be an adventure, but it will eventually work out!

@Merc - I'm really glad to see Magic put his money where his heart is... back in Michigan! He didn't have to come back here for an investment, but he chose to, and I think he deserves a lot of props for doing that!

On the SG saga, I fear that you may be right! If we were just concerned about developing the team & preparing for a likely playoff appearance, we'd start KCP!

Unfortunately, this is a business, and Stuckey is capable of delivering something to us that will be hard to get in other ways... a chance to get a first round pick in next years draft!

Business dictates that we have to showcase him in the best possible light to drive up his value, and unfortunately, that is likely to slow KCP's ability to start!

That may be what Joe communicated to Cheeks before the hire, and could account for Cheeks high praise of Stuckey... we have to trade him, because the money coming off the books can't buy the pick, and it comes too late!!!

@Don - It's going to be interesting watching how Jennings adapts. My money is on him making the transition, but it may not be easy for him to change!

If you read the language of the first day, you can tell that there is some mild conflict between him and Cheeks already! On day one Cheeks sees the bad Jennings, so he hasn't gotten off on a good footing, jacking up 3 pointers for no good reason! Well, Bynum may have been applying defense on him, but if he can't handle Bynum, he can forget the rest of the guards in the central who are bigger and faster!

Time will tell!

[deusXango]

Should be a hot topic this year... I'll throw a s.w.a.g. out there...
Stuckey starts with most of the PT... then get's dealt... Chauncey is the early backup til age injuries shows it's ugly head.
KCP is spoon fed initially and takes over the lions share once RS is traded.
Singler slides in as the backup and does surprisingly well there using his height.

Merc, the last line of your post about the backup SG is the one that hurts my head when I think about the Jennings sign and trade; we should not have traded Khris Middleton!! IMHO he was by far the best candidate on this team to play SG (along with KCP), and Joe blew it. Singler is more of a SF than SG, period, and vise-versa with Middleton.

"I really wonder if Joe Dumars actually looked at Jennings assist rate or knew that Jennings was not liked at all by his teammates. Cheeks cannot do the impossible and that is what will be expected of him. My advise to Mo is don't take any crap at all and start helping Siva who is his kind of player."-Don
We can pussyfoot around the facts all we want, but Peyton Siva is a player right now!! Why are we talking about a PG who "can't" shot, but is one hell of a facilitator (and defender), on a team full of PG's who're ball hogs? Sometime, some of us sound so damn confused about the game of basketball, it amazes me where they keep their love for the home team.

Oracle, to the rescue! Your well thought out, and articulate post on KCP starting at SG touched my heart and renewed my confidence in the logical Pistons fan. By virtue of being the only true athletic, historically trained, defensive SG, who can actually shot with range, he should start; he's a top 10 lottery pick, coming onto a team that couldn't win 30 games last year, and is as deserving to be a part of the new edition Detroit Pistons as anyone!! Damn resurrecting a career that's dead, at the expense of stalling a promising career that's not had a fair chance to begin.

Back to Jennings. This is about Mo Cheeks showing what his worth is about in molding character, developing PG's, and coaching a team; you've got to have the players to be successful is what we've been saying all along, well he has the players.

[merc]

Magic Johnson is buying the old State Fair Ground on 8 mile... turning into theater & shopping.... love hearing this kind of commitment to re-development.

[cool breeze]

Jennings should have kept his mouth closed after the trade. Instead he advised the media that he is looking forward to playing with better big men. Larry Sanders must have had words along with a lot of other players on Jennings team last season. That locker room must have been hot at times because they sure is not love when Jennings name is mentioned to Larry Sanders. Ellis, who is also a shoot first kind of player far exceeded Jennings in assists to Sanders. Sanders was quoted by the press in response to Jennings statement about playing with better bigs that "he needs to pass it to them first".

I really wonder if Joe Dumars actually looked at Jennings assist rate or knew that Jennings was not liked at all by his teammates. Cheeks cannot do the impossible and that is what will be expected of him. My advise to Mo is don't take any crap at all and start helping Siva who is his kind of player.

[merc]

Should be a hot topic this year... I'll throw a s.w.a.g. out there...
Stuckey starts with most of the PT... then get's dealt... Chauncey is the early backup til age injuries shows it's ugly head.
KCP is spoon fed initially and takes over the lions share once RS is traded.
Singler slides in as the backup and does surprisingly well there using his height.

[Oracle]

DX, IMO, KCP will get the start at SG unless he completely falls apart! Why?

The simple fact is that nobody else on this team is a SG... PERIOD!

He's the only one that wants the job! Chauncey wants to be the PG, and interestingly, Chauncey gave the EXACT same reason Stuckey gave!

He said that he can't get a rhythm going from the SG position! If he can't get the PG position from Jennings, he would consider the SG position if Jennings shared the PG duties with him. IMO, this is KCP's biggest threat!

Stuckey doesn't want the SG position for the same reasons Chauncey gave, but would also accept a PG sharing role, but it makes less sense than doing it with Chauncey because Stuckey can't shoot!

Then there's the outlier in Singler, who can play SG in a pinch, but is not an SG!

The bottom line is that we should simply accept the growing pains of starting KCP because it's best in the long term, and quite frankly, none of the other choices can beat him defensively!

I always thought most teams started the best defensive player, all things being equal, and KCP fits that bill. In addition, KCP runs the floor WAY better than any of the other options. Stuckey is the closest, but where Stuckey is chunky and jerky, KCP is fast and fluid!

Yup, KCP should start IMO!

[Oracle]

"Jennings' education

Cheeks said he would be tough on his point guards but said Brandon Jennings hasn’t truly felt the hands-on approach quite yet.

During the shell drill which evolved into a 24-second shot clock where one team tried to stop the other, Jennings launched a 3-pointer that came up short with some contact from Will Bynum.

“He didn’t get a whole lot today. He got an off day today,” Cheeks said, then laughed. “He took one shot, I think he got fouled on, but it was a bad shot so it’s like a turnover. That one play, I think he understood where I was coming from. You can make your point without getting on him.”" -  Pistons players communicating key to Maurice Cheeks' blueprint

[deusXango]

Sebastian, that is an absolutely awesome picture/poster of the most talented, current Pistons; where can I obtain one? Thanks for sharing that.

[deusXango]

Poll


Read this before voting

1. Ben McLemore

2. Victor Oladipo

3. Otto Porter

4. Trey Burke

5. Nerlens Noel

6. Anthony Bennett

7. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

8. C.J. McCollum

9. Michael Carter-Williams

10. Shabazz Muhammad

11. Cody Zeller

12. Alex Len

13. Dennis Schroeder

14. Sergey Karasev

Which player belongs No. 15 on the Pistons' draft board?

Remember the poll that was ran on Pistons Powered leading up to the draft? The only player on that poll voted to go before KCP was Trey Burke, who went right after we drafted KCP, so why is it some act as if we got a 2nd rounder competing for starting SG? I don't care what Georgia's record was last year, it was widely recognized that KCP could ball. What was Eastern Washington's record when we drafted the then new face of the franchise at #15?

I'm pulling for KCP to be the talk of training camp, with his outstanding play, and becomes a team favorite, from top to bottom!! I hope Cheeks falls in love with his work ethic and game.

GO PISTONS!!

I will be collecting donation towards the purchase of DX new  Motor City Stuckey #3 jersey  

Wise, you a funny man.  Peep this, I already got a #3 Pistons jersey, but it ain't Stuckey's.
When Chauncey Billups was re-issued his No. 1 jersey in July after Drummond agreed to switch to No. 0, Billups said Drummond should establish his own legacy in a number not made famous by anyone else. “That kid is going to make a lot of money,” he said then.-Chauncey Billups, Championship MVP I think my #3 is the real deal, as far as a meaningful legacy goes, anything else is a fraud or knockoff.

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