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So near, yet so far

Post  deusXango on Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:02 pm

Brandon Knight is a player who I had no problem with as a person, but his combo game was redundant and I didn't like that. I've always felt that there was no place for combo guards in a starting lineup (an elite SG with PG skills is not a combo guard, like Kobe, DWade, or Harden), but they make excellent 6th men, or first guard off a bench. I watched Stuckey drag this team down, as a starting combo guard trying to play PG exclusively, then along comes Knight, with a new and different set of problems; neither one of those guys were at fault for the position they found themselves in (young men trying to make a name for themselves are blinded by the "wisdom" of old dogs, like Joe Dumars), and now Knight is beginning to turn into a basketball vagabond. That's a shame. In spite of what Hammond had to say about Knight being the PG he was looking for, I have the feeling he wanted Middleton all along and Knight was a throw-in, much like Kravstov. Think about it; the best SG/SF the Bucks had was Carlos Delfino, who has a career history of being injured, most of the time, and his shot is not as sweet as Middleton's. I think Middleton is being groomed to start and Knight is being groomed to do for the Bucks, what he didn't want to do for the Pistons and that's come off the bench.

Who can remember when we traded with Cleveland for Kenny Carr and Laimbeer was the throw-in? We didn't want Carr, we wanted Laimbeer and the rest is history.
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More info...

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:58 pm

Go Stones! wrote:Knight got another DNP-Coach's Decision last night.  I see he has had some injuries, so this really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  Can you only have so many players play due to injury?  If not, what gives?  I wonder if he is yet to crack the rotation due to being new.  Their starting PG (forgot his name) is injured too, so it really would be ideal for him to play if he is actually able to.

Billups has tendonitis, which is another word for "old man legs".  They are using this to give him a breather and have an excuse to not use him.  It also may be a pride thing that if he is able to have an excuse why he is not playing AND he/they can always say that he missed a lot of games due to injuries.  It works well for everyone.  I think when it comes down to it, the bottom line is that he can only go every 2 games and he should not be looked at as dependable for the long term, however, he can rise to the occasion from time to time when necessary.  Think Hunter in 2004.  

I do believe a trade is coming very soon!  Could be good...could be bad!
 
"The game wasn’t pretty as the Bucks fell to the Pacers 104 – 77. Without four starters (Caron Butler, Bandon Knight, Ersan Ilyasova, and Larry Sanders), the Bucks were just no match for the more talented Pacers team" - Bucks

Knight is still recovering from a hammy!
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TMI?

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:52 pm

Is Jennings giving out too much information?
 
Brandon Jennings Admits Basketball was Never Top Focus when with Milwaukee Bucks

Jennings has a lot to overcome...
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Knight and Billups...my take

Post  Go Stones! on Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Knight got another DNP-Coach's Decision last night. I see he has had some injuries, so this really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Can you only have so many players play due to injury? If not, what gives? I wonder if he is yet to crack the rotation due to being new. Their starting PG (forgot his name) is injured too, so it really would be ideal for him to play if he is actually able to.

Billups has tendonitis, which is another word for "old man legs". They are using this to give him a breather and have an excuse to not use him. It also may be a pride thing that if he is able to have an excuse why he is not playing AND he/they can always say that he missed a lot of games due to injuries. It works well for everyone. I think when it comes down to it, the bottom line is that he can only go every 2 games and he should not be looked at as dependable for the long term, however, he can rise to the occasion from time to time when necessary. Think Hunter in 2004.

I do believe a trade is coming very soon! Could be good...could be bad!
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Interesting Points...

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:28 pm

Brandon Jennings was pretty schizophrenic. He took a lot of questionable shots and wasn't getting teammates involved and then all of a sudden he flipped a switch and started making things happen. Then, just as quickly he started jacking up dumb shots again. In the end he finished with 11 points and nine assists but shot just 5-of-14.
• The Pistons were facing the worst 3-point defense in the NBA and again couldn't hit anything from the perimeter. Detroit finished 6-of-23. That includes 2-of-6 from Smith, 1-of-5 from Jennings and 1-of-5 from Kyle Singler
• Speaking of Singler, he started out great, hitting four of his first five shots. He connected on a 3 and made some great cuts to the basket for easy scores. And then the wheels fell off and he couldn't do anything. Needless to say, the rotation is still unsettled.
• The Pistons continue to leave people wide open on the perimeter and the Kings were able to hit 10 of 25 3-point attempts. This has to be by design and I'm wondering when someone is going to ask Cheeks about it. It drives me crazier than anything else going on with this team.

 
From: Pistons vs. Kings final score: Josh Smith does it all to help Detroit snap losing streak
 
The comments they made about Jennings interested me the most! It's amazing that he manages to get 9 assists even as he has an average game in my view.
 
This kid could really be an elite PG if he works at it, because he's doing better than Calderon did last year(he does have better talent though)
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Pistons 97, Kings 90

Post  Sebastian on Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:24 am

deusXango wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Reading the Detroit News article about improving team defense, I feel pretty good about this coaching staff. Mo Cheeks can identify what is happening and he is focusing on ways to help the players improve. His statement about Singler is dead on so I hope some of you fans have read that article. I can't wait until Singler starts draining his outside shots. I think the problem with many of the players right now is that they just haven't played together long enough. As a player it just take time to become relaxed on the floor knowing your teammates are all on the same page. For this team, it could take a long time maybe until Feb. This road trip is doing on thing. It is getting players in game shape. They have played strong teams who have been together much longer than our young Pistons. The potential is there. Cheeks knows that the way for this team to in is to become a strong defensive team. Yet he has his hands full with certain players who haven't had to step their defense up for several seasons. They have been able to get away with all the mental errors but not with Mo Cheeks. You can't get things past him. He has been there and put in the effort himself and knows that only hard work and attention to detail brings success. I have been watching a lot of college ball lately and am finding out that there are many college players who play in the back court that do have the fundamentals down and do concentrate on performing the way their coaches want not the way they decide to play. This is the main problem and has been for the Detroit Pistons for 4 seasons. The players do it there way and ignore game plans set up by the coaching staff. I believe that upper management is behind Mo Cheeks and will let him have his way as to what he will allow from his players and what he won't. If Josh Smith doesn't change, my bet is that he will be on the bench a lot. It is not all Smith of course. He is playing with dysfunctional guards from the old Piston era where losing was common and accepted. Can Cheeks teach Bynum and Stuckey how to play pick and roll defense. If those players can change, then Smith will likely become more motivated. If not, then Mo needs to limit their playing time or eliminated there playing time and go with KCP and maybe Datome or Singler at the 2 guard unless a trade is made. Defense first is the only way this team can win this season. The big three in the paint need to encourage opposing guards to stay out of the paint. They need hard nosed guards to stay in front of their assigned player to slow them down until the proper rotation can be made. All of this can be accomplished if the players listen and work for it. Old habits are hard to break but the insane money the players are making should cause them to be willing to do anything. A young leader needs to step forward and keep the players on the right track. That player was supposed to be Smith. Who will it be??
Don, I hear you and am a strong believer in sound defense, but what baffles me in all this is why hasn't KCP been tapped to start at SG before now? He's a lottery pick, who's played strong defense, if nothing else, and his outside shot is as likely to start falling as soon as Singlers. What was to be gained by starting an ancient Billups? This could be Stuckey's last year as a Piston (would the world spin off it's axis if that happened?), and even his most staunch supporter, Sebastian, believes his game is better utilized in a 6th man role. It's a difference between having a sound plan and following it, versus grabbing at straws when sh!t goes wrong.
The Kings' raucous sellout crowd at Sleep Train Arena set a Guinness world record for loudest noise at an indoor arena at 126.0 decibels. but OUR Pistons won the game.

J-Smoove validated why Joe knocked on his door at 12:00:01 AM, July 1, 2013. 'Sheed got the chance to council his student (Dre Drummond) to a successful return to the game. Speaking of coaching, Mo' coached his best game of the season. Cheeks had a much better rotation (too many minutes for Will B., still, but ...). The decision to start KCP was the correct decision. KCP should had gotten a few more minutes (from Will B.), but he looked comfortable and confident while on the floor. Moose played a strong game, maybe not with great production but continues to help define OUR new roster.

And, then there is Rodney Stuckey, 6th-man, first guard off the bench. Stuckey played the game that he can bring every night for OUR Pistons: 16 pts. (6-13. 1-3 from the arc), 4 ast., 4 rbs., 1 stl., 1 blk. Additionally, Stuckey as a SG became a secondary PG when dishing dimes to Dre and Linguinie. Mo got it right tonight with the guard rotation, again, still a few too many minutes given to Will B.

Thank you, Chauncey, the tendinitis in your knees was scheduled, perfectly.

Next, up an inept Lakers team.

DETROIT BASKETBALL!!!
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I Love W's

Post  WTF on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:55 am

So refreshing not having to hear the voices of Blaha and Kelser last night, really all our games should be on ESPN. tb I think they did a great job calling the game (fair and honest)

Okay I can see where/why some like Stuckey coming off the bench  I just don't think he'll be less effective if he started the games.

Pistons can win against the Lakers but will have their hands full with Gasol and Kaman. Yes I will have my eyes on Moose because Kaman whipped on his ass last season (twice)
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Now That's More Like It

Post  Murph on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:39 am

Good win last night. It's always nice to play a weaker team, in order to work out the kinks.

Kudos to DX and those who where screaming for KCP to start. He had a nice 1st quarter and helped the Pistons get off to an early lead. It looks as if we might have found our starting SG for the next...10 years?

Josh Smith looked as if he was back on track. He shot well, rebounded well, and moved the ball well, picking up 7 assists.

And in fact, the entire starting front line was back on track, combining for 44 pts, 30 rbds, 8 asts, 9 stls and 4 blks....just like they did at the beginning of the season.

Jennings had a team high 9 asts, although he still shot too much. Stuckey provided a scoring spark off the bench. And Singler and Jerebko also played well in limited minutes off the bench.

Only one more game on this endless west coast trip...the Lakers on Sunday.
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We ain't all crazy at the same time

Post  deusXango on Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:45 am

Tonight's win was a refreshing one where we got a glimpse of what we can be once the bugs are ironed out. Monroe had his hands full with "Boogie," so his game was less productive than it usually is, but J-Smoove and 'Dre had monster games (that's the value of having three quality big men instead of two) and that's what matters; some fans with a personal problem with Monroe will use tonight's win as an excuse to "dog" the Moose, because his numbers weren't a big part of the final score, but the final score was in our favor!!

It was good to see KCP finally get a start and I noticed a marked improvement in our guards defense (IMHO we could have done without Bynum) tonight, and Stuckey's play continues to impress me, COMING OFF THE BENCH! He got his minutes, made a hell of a contribution, and was on the floor during "money time." KCP should continue to start and Stuckey should continue to function as our 6th man; hopefully success won't spoil what we have brewing, because it's exciting.

This is why I campaigned so hard for Joe to pursue Josh Smith in FA; the man can flat out ball!! Don't expect every game to be like tonight's, but look for good things throughout the season; has anyone noticed that there's no problem with spacing? When it was theoretical all I heard was "spacing, spacing, spacing. We're going to have a problem with spacing with Drummond, Monroe, and Smith." Now that there's been no perceivable problem with spacing, how about a round of applause?

J.J. made a respectable showing tonight and that's how you showcase a player when you want to trade him; he doesn't have to start or play extended minutes, just be effective in the few he does play. Something like "previews of coming attractions."

We're officially off the snide when we beat down the Lakers and return to the Palace for some home cooking; I fully expect that to come to pass.
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I thought they would win because...

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:41 am

The Kings are a dumb team, and while we're not dumb, we're uncoordinated as a unit!
 
In addition, the Kings don't shoot that well, except for Isaiah Jamar Thomas! 
 
So any win is a good one, and this was one where the Pistons were pretty much in control most of the game, which for this team is impressive, especially on the road!
 
We won't be so lucky with the Lakers, they actually do shoot decently, but IMO, are less talented than Sacramento!
 
Going 2-2 is still possible, but it will depend on how well the defense can play.
 
Jennings still takes way too many dumb shots, but overall, his play has been good... they're all learning.
 
HUGE shout out to Josh Smith! What a monster of a game!
 
Drummond recovered from a dismal start to come on strong, and Stuckey stepped up big time!
 
This is an excellent reason why Stuckey is best coming off the bench and getting 30 minutes! Stuckey is a point guard, not a shooting guard, but even though he appears to play SG to Jennings PG pretty well at times, I like KCP starting!
 
8 minutes for Bynum? Not bad, but Cheeks could probably reduce that to 5 minutes and have over played him at that!
 
Quietly Singler had a very good game! Filling the break, hitting some critical shots, even though he missed a lot from deep, he still had a decent shooting game.
 
Even JJ contributed a few points and a good block of Cousins, although I don't think he got credit for it!
 
So lots to like, but again, the Kings are, IMO, a mess mentally and coaching wise. But the NBA has a lot of teams like that, and we should be able to beat them all!
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Good Win Tonight

Post  WTF on Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:07 am

People you have to love Josh's, he's One Bad Mofo! Stuckey has again IMO confirmed why he should get the start, Moose did the lay down thing again. Jennings this was so much better, KCP getting minutes that's a good thing. Now go beat the Lakers
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Oh Yeah!!!

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:12 pm

deusXango wrote:I don't know what BK7 may come to mean to the Milwaukee Bucks, but Khris Middleton is fast becoming one of their most important players. Sound familiar?
Some of us knew that Middleton was going to be a good pro with that sweet jumper!

BTW: JR Smith fined 25K for tweets with Jennings!
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Eye opening fact

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:53 pm

I don't know what BK7 may come to mean to the Milwaukee Bucks, but Khris Middleton is fast becoming one of their most important players. Sound familiar?
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From Twitter

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:09 pm

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:30 pm

deusXango wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Reading the Detroit News article about improving team defense, I feel pretty good about this coaching staff. Mo Cheeks can identify what is happening and he is focusing on ways to help the players improve. His statement about Singler is dead on so I hope some of you fans have read that article. I can't wait until Singler starts draining his outside shots. I think the problem with many of the players right now is that they just haven't played together long enough. As a player it just take time to become relaxed on the floor knowing your teammates are all on the same page. For this team, it could take a long time maybe until Feb. This road trip is doing on thing. It is getting players in game shape. They have played strong teams who have been together much longer than our young Pistons. The potential is there. Cheeks knows that the way for this team to in is to become a strong defensive team. Yet he has his hands full with certain players who haven't had to step their defense up for several seasons. They have been able to get away with all the mental errors but not with Mo Cheeks. You can't get things past him. He has been there and put in the effort himself and knows that only hard work and attention to detail brings success. I have been watching a lot of college ball lately and am finding out that there are many college players who play in the back court that do have the fundamentals down and do concentrate on performing the way their coaches want not the way they decide to play. This is the main problem and has been for the Detroit Pistons for 4 seasons. The players do it there way and ignore game plans set up by the coaching staff. I believe that upper management is behind Mo Cheeks and will let him have his way as to what he will allow from his players and what he won't. If Josh Smith doesn't change, my bet is that he will be on the bench a lot. It is not all Smith of course. He is playing with dysfunctional guards from the old Piston era where losing was common and accepted. Can Cheeks teach Bynum and Stuckey how to play pick and roll defense. If those players can change, then Smith will likely become more motivated. If not, then Mo needs to limit their playing time or eliminated there playing time and go with KCP and maybe Datome or Singler at the 2 guard unless a trade is made. Defense first is the only way this team can win this season. The big three in the paint need to encourage opposing guards to stay out of the paint. They need hard nosed guards to stay in front of their assigned player to slow them down until the proper rotation can be made. All of this can be accomplished if the players listen and work for it. Old habits are hard to break but the insane money the players are making should cause them to be willing to do anything. A young leader needs to step forward and keep the players on the right track. That player was supposed to be Smith. Who will it be??
Don, I hear you and am a strong believer in sound defense, but what baffles me in all this is why hasn't KCP been tapped to start at SG before now? He's a lottery pick, who's played strong defense, if nothing else, and his outside shot is as likely to start falling as soon as Singlers. What was to be gained by starting an ancient Billups? This could be Stuckey's last year as a Piston (would the world spin off it's axis if that happened?), and even his most staunch supporter, Sebastian, believes his game is better utilized in a 6th man role. It's a difference between having a sound plan and following it, versus grabbing at straws when sh!t goes wrong.
I agree with you dX relating to starting KCP and riding it out with him for at least 3 months at the 2 guard position. It looks like Billups has a knee issue so that might take him out of the rotation. The only reason Billups was signed was to bring a winning mindset to the team. As Billups said before when he lead the Pistons to so many Final 4s, the team got together and decided to refuse to lose. The current group of players have no idea what it takes to win when your legs are hurting after playing so many games. It is like running a marathon where you have to suck it up and use your mind to get through the torture. I want the coach to reduce the minutes of Bynum who is hurting the team because he cannot guard anyone. And Stuckey should take a back seat to KCP as well. This team needs a big guard to match up with some of the other NBA teams. That is when Detroit needs to use either Singler or Datome at the 2 guard.

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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:49 pm

cool breeze wrote:Reading the Detroit News article about improving team defense, I feel pretty good about this coaching staff. Mo Cheeks can identify what is happening and he is focusing on ways to help the players improve. His statement about Singler is dead on so I hope some of you fans have read that article. I can't wait until Singler starts draining his outside shots. I think the problem with many of the players right now is that they just haven't played together long enough. As a player it just take time to become relaxed on the floor knowing your teammates are all on the same page. For this team, it could take a long time maybe until Feb. This road trip is doing on thing. It is getting players in game shape. They have played strong teams who have been together much longer than our young Pistons. The potential is there. Cheeks knows that the way for this team to in is to become a strong defensive team. Yet he has his hands full with certain players who haven't had to step their defense up for several seasons. They have been able to get away with all the mental errors but not with Mo Cheeks. You can't get things past him. He has been there and put in the effort himself and knows that only hard work and attention to detail brings success. I have been watching a lot of college ball lately and am finding out that there are many college players who play in the back court that do have the fundamentals down and do concentrate on performing the way their coaches want not the way they decide to play. This is the main problem and has been for the Detroit Pistons for 4 seasons. The players do it there way and ignore game plans set up by the coaching staff. I believe that upper management is behind Mo Cheeks and will let him have his way as to what he will allow from his players and what he won't. If Josh Smith doesn't change, my bet is that he will be on the bench a lot. It is not all Smith of course. He is playing with dysfunctional guards from the old Piston era where losing was common and accepted. Can Cheeks teach Bynum and Stuckey how to play pick and roll defense. If those players can change, then Smith will likely become more motivated. If not, then Mo needs to limit their playing time or eliminated there playing time and go with KCP and maybe Datome or Singler at the 2 guard unless a trade is made. Defense first is the only way this team can win this season. The big three in the paint need to encourage opposing guards to stay out of the paint. They need hard nosed guards to stay in front of their assigned player to slow them down until the proper rotation can be made. All of this can be accomplished if the players listen and work for it. Old habits are hard to break but the insane money the players are making should cause them to be willing to do anything. A young leader needs to step forward and keep the players on the right track. That player was supposed to be Smith. Who will it be??
Don, I hear you and am a strong believer in sound defense, but what baffles me in all this is why hasn't KCP been tapped to start at SG before now? He's a lottery pick, who's played strong defense, if nothing else, and his outside shot is as likely to start falling as soon as Singlers. What was to be gained by starting an ancient Billups? This could be Stuckey's last year as a Piston (would the world spin off it's axis if that happened?), and even his most staunch supporter, Sebastian, believes his game is better utilized in a 6th man role. It's a difference between having a sound plan and following it, versus grabbing at straws when sh!t goes wrong.
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Tough schedule for a team trying to find their way. Stay strong and listen to the coach!

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:52 pm

Reading the Detroit News article about improving team defense, I feel pretty good about this coaching staff. Mo Cheeks can identify what is happening and he is focusing on ways to help the players improve. His statement about Singler is dead on so I hope some of you fans have read that article. I can't wait until Singler starts draining his outside shots. I think the problem with many of the players right now is that they just haven't played together long enough. As a player it just take time to become relaxed on the floor knowing your teammates are all on the same page. For this team, it could take a long time maybe until Feb. This road trip is doing on thing. It is getting players in game shape. They have played strong teams who have been together much longer than our young Pistons. The potential is there. Cheeks knows that the way for this team to in is to become a strong defensive team. Yet he has his hands full with certain players who haven't had to step their defense up for several seasons. They have been able to get away with all the mental errors but not with Mo Cheeks. You can't get things past him. He has been there and put in the effort himself and knows that only hard work and attention to detail brings success. I have been watching a lot of college ball lately and am finding out that there are many college players who play in the back court that do have the fundamentals down and do concentrate on performing the way their coaches want not the way they decide to play. This is the main problem and has been for the Detroit Pistons for 4 seasons. The players do it there way and ignore game plans set up by the coaching staff. I believe that upper management is behind Mo Cheeks and will let him have his way as to what he will allow from his players and what he won't. If Josh Smith doesn't change, my bet is that he will be on the bench a lot. It is not all Smith of course. He is playing with dysfunctional guards from the old Piston era where losing was common and accepted. Can Cheeks teach Bynum and Stuckey how to play pick and roll defense. If those players can change, then Smith will likely become more motivated. If not, then Mo needs to limit their playing time or eliminated there playing time and go with KCP and maybe Datome or Singler at the 2 guard unless a trade is made. Defense first is the only way this team can win this season. The big three in the paint need to encourage opposing guards to stay out of the paint. They need hard nosed guards to stay in front of their assigned player to slow them down until the proper rotation can be made. All of this can be accomplished if the players listen and work for it. Old habits are hard to break but the insane money the players are making should cause them to be willing to do anything. A young leader needs to step forward and keep the players on the right track. That player was supposed to be Smith. Who will it be??

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:33 pm

lemonpen wrote:
cool breeze wrote:
lemonpen wrote:
Oracle wrote:I know I'm not forgetting the 20 game rule, but there are conditions you can't and shouldn't ignore.
 
Who's playing good and who's not! Chauncey is not playing good in the current role he's in. He's supposed to be the guy that gets PT just before Bynum, which is rarely!
Me thinks Mr. Big Shot has clearly lost a step or two.  He seems to be living on guile, experience and nothing more.  

Singler still does all of the little things, but that won't matter if he can't do the main job of an SF! Singler has been less effective in recent games, and Datome has shined, even when his game was off!
It looks more and more like his entire offensive game is too slow for this level.  Move him over for Luigi. 

I agree with you about Drummond, he's off where I never thought he would be... on defense. He's great as a help defender, but sometimes that desire leaves his own man open to score. His foot work is good, but he regularly misses assignments in the last 2 games.
Does he seem to be gambling way too much.  And thinking way too much.  And maybe running from anything that might send him to the free throw line. 

I wouldn't say Drummond is playing bad, just not as effectively as he could!
 
Jennings is not playing like a starting PG, but like a 6th man! If he's not going to pass the damn rock and if he's not going to run the pick and roll, WTF did we trade BK7 for because we were getting that with better 3 point shooting and a positive influence in the locker room(not to mention a lot cheaper to boot)!
 
I don't see Josh Smith as any kind of problem, I see Josh Smith being the most affected player due to the recent changes. Specifically the addition of Jennings! That addition has cause the sharing of the ball to go from very good to almost nothing! In that environment, the bigs can't do their passing thing down low because the PG is dominating the ball!
 
IMO, big changes are not needed, but the small change I'm suggesting has a snowballs chance in hell of happening!
 
1. Start Stuckey at PG  
Maybe not yet.  I think Jennings needs a more dynamic running mate in the backcourt.  Someone with his level of quickness and aggressiveness to tag team with.

2. Start KCP at SG
He!! Yeah

3. Datome instead of Singler
He!! Yeah.  Sorry Cool Breeze 

That's it!!! I won't say problem solved, but problem gets a lot better! Oh, BTW, this improves our defense as well as our offense, IMO!
 
But doing that would take a hell of a lot of balls, and Cheeks would catch holy hell from Jennings & Joe if he was know to be even thinking this way!
Lemonpen are you serious relating to your comments about Josh Smith. Cheeks is seeing what I see on the floor. Smith is not moving without the ball. Jennings penetrates and you would think your star player would want the basketball. Not so it seems. And the reason why Singler is playing more is the simple reason that Smith cannot guard a small forward or at least is not showing that he cannot guard. This team can only win if all the players agree that the only way they can win is by playing really good physical defense. Smith started out playing hard but has been AWOL over the last two games. Before that, he had issues trying to guard small forwards though and maybe he is depressed believing he can't do the job and is only an asset playing power forward.

It seems that fans like to blame Singler for the failure of the team to win. But Singler is a glue guy who is supposed to play help defense, set screens, box out his man and rebound on the weak side as well as dive for loose balls. Fans seem to believe that this isn't important while Cheeks knows better. What isn't happening is the key scorers are not doing the job. Stuckey and Bynum have been part of a losing tradition. They don't pick up the switches which makes Smith look bad. This happened a lot in the Portland game where Stuckey was the worst offender. The problem remains that other teams will pick on Will Bynum when he enters the game because he is a weak defender. Other teams know all of Stuckey's moves and they also know he often goes blank on defense.

Datome is not the answer right now. Did you watch him play defense when he had his shot? He is not ready not to say he won't be down the road.

Jerebco was in the rotation and then out and has no sense of how he fits in with the team.  In my opinion Jerebco still offers a lot to the team because of his work ethic, speed and size.

Cheeks is experimenting with this team right now maybe because he doesn't like Smith's attitude on and off the court which was his problem in Atlanta. So far he hasn't found the right combinations. One adjustment has to be made relating to Stuckey and Bynum. Jennings and Stuckey seems like a good combination. Jennings and Bynum will not work because of defensive issues. Dumars has made it tough for his coach once again. I would just stick with KCP over Bynum and Stuckey and see where that goes. He offers more consistency and this guy is only a rookie.

Fans seem down on Jennings. I was against the trade but now really believe in Jennings. He wants to get better and has a fire in his belly unlike many of the other players. As Jennings is clearly the best player on this team right now, other players need to adjust to him especially Smith. Jennings is drawing at least 2 players his way on every possession which should be a great thing for a guy like Smith. But Smith either is not smart enough to make the proper cuts to get open or he is a lazy ass loser. I am leaning towards the later right now. Smith is not bringing an A game and he is getting paid to do that every damn night. It is time for the fans to start yelling at him to get his attention during the next home game.

This team needs to hold on together and play hard. Smith is the big money player and needs to lead with the proper emotion and work ethic.
You misread.  My comments are in blue.  
We are on the same page regarding J Smoove.  I thought he hasn't been aggressive enough toward the basket, and was settling for the 3pt shot.  

Since making the comments I have read that Josh has been encouraged by the staff to take the 3pt J  as opposed to a long 2 pointer.  They hope the higher point value evens out the low fg%.    Seems like it might work better if we begin with Monroe as the featured guy until AD leaves then JS goes to work inside.
Sorry Lemonpen. My blunder and I like what you said.

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B. Jennings, Stuckey, and KCP ...

Post  Sebastian on Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:59 pm

WISEFAN wrote:I think the starting backcourt should be KCP and Stuckey and Jennings coming of the bench as "Sixth Man" at this point. I would much rather have Jennings taking his shoot first mantra with playing with the second unit in stead of starting the games with Monroe, Drummond, Josh because he's clearly effecting how they're playing.  
 
Jennings is clearly the better scorer but he's not at this point the better option at PG, Stuckey is.  There are other cases to argue a Stuckey starting at PG. 1. He's a better perimeter defender and this is where the team has been getting killed and a KCP and Stuckey tandem helps big time. 2. Stuckey has been hitting his career marks with less minutes, his shooting percentage has been extremely better and I think once people stop looking at the "Old Stuckey" and start looking at what he has been doing currently he deserves to start be it along side Jennings or KCP. and 3. Stuckey is a far more willing passer maybe not as capable a passer as Jennings but of the 2 Stuckey is likely the one that can be convinced to pass that ball.  
 
A few things I've noticed about Stuckey so far is he has developed what seems to be a few new post moves, and has taken advantage of mismatches with he's size and posting more. He has take very good shots for the most part and was shooting well above 50% FG and with his 3's as well. He's always been steady IMO on the defensive end of the court and nothing has changed there.  
 
The problem with Jennings is he gets into these personal contest with the opposing PG's he faced so far and that only fuels that shoot first mentality of his.  
 
Trust me I was never a "Knight Fan" but at this point we might as well kept him because we're kind of getting the same results at that position. Perhaps Knight would have taken to what CB had to offer to how that position needs to be played. Right now I think Jennings is doing his own thing especially if he's ignoring 2 championship PG to be advised by Joe how to play the PG position.
Wise, I'm right there with you on the Rodney Stuckey Reclamation Project, but I would much rather see Stuckey as the 6th-man, 1st guard off the bench getting 28-32 per game. I don't particularly like the idea of him starting with B. Jennings, as Stuckey is not effective running to the corners each time down court, while waiting for B. Jennings to dribble the air out of the ball. Stuckey operates much, much better when he is at the Point.

I would like it better, if Stuckey subbed for B. Jennings at about the 8 minute mark into the 1st quarter, while leaving KCP on the floor until the 10 minute mark and then bring in Singler as the shooting guard, who replaces KCP for a while. Singler maybe should stay in until the 8 minute mark of the 2nd quarter and then B. Jennings returns, then moving Stuckey over to the SG position until maybe the 5 minute mark of the 2nd quarter, as KCP returns to the game.

I don't like, I repeat don't like, the substitution pattern that has followed since game 2 of the season, where Stuckey and Singler come into the game at the same time. Singler minutes need to be decreased, considerably.

I would love it if Joe could talk the Nuggets into taking Singler and Jerebko off of OUR hands for Wilson Chandler, and then Chandler could get the sum of Singler's 22.7 minutes and Jerebko's 7.8 minutes per game.

WE really do need a back-up SF of significance to help turn this thing around.
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Knee tendonitis, huh?

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:49 pm

When did this tendonitis rear it's ugly head? Was it after the blowout or before the Pacers game? You guys want to know what has me pissed? It was the play against the Warriors when Klay Thompson drove around Jennings to the rim and jammed, with Chauncey standing there, in the lane, looking like a fool. "Drove around Jennings" from the perimeter? A 6' 7" terror on the outside as well as the inside, going up against arguably the weakest defender in the starting lineup? Where was this cunning and guile we were led to believe we had coming in Billups? He got tendonitis in his jump shot as well.

If missing outside shots is acceptable (because they'll eventually start falling) then KCP is the man to start at SG; he has the size and length, and displays a constant defensive energy, that's been missing in our starting lineup, and the word is getting around about that fact. Cheeks better change things and soon.


Last edited by deusXango on Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Timing

Post  Sparma on Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:14 pm

My recollection is that Billups was signed when there was hope he'd provide guidance to Knight, ease Knight's PG minutes, maybe play some with Knight in a complementary SG/PG role. Those reasons for signing him made sense to me. Post Jennings trade, there's little reason to have him on the roster, except for an occasional steadying stint at PG and as an outside shooter. You sure don't want him blocking player development (KCP). I seriously doubt he would have been signed once we traded for Jennings.
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Cool Breeze

Post  lemonpen on Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:12 pm

cool breeze wrote:
lemonpen wrote:
Oracle wrote:I know I'm not forgetting the 20 game rule, but there are conditions you can't and shouldn't ignore.
 
Who's playing good and who's not! Chauncey is not playing good in the current role he's in. He's supposed to be the guy that gets PT just before Bynum, which is rarely!
Me thinks Mr. Big Shot has clearly lost a step or two.  He seems to be living on guile, experience and nothing more.  

Singler still does all of the little things, but that won't matter if he can't do the main job of an SF! Singler has been less effective in recent games, and Datome has shined, even when his game was off!
It looks more and more like his entire offensive game is too slow for this level.  Move him over for Luigi. 

I agree with you about Drummond, he's off where I never thought he would be... on defense. He's great as a help defender, but sometimes that desire leaves his own man open to score. His foot work is good, but he regularly misses assignments in the last 2 games.
Does he seem to be gambling way too much.  And thinking way too much.  And maybe running from anything that might send him to the free throw line. 

I wouldn't say Drummond is playing bad, just not as effectively as he could!
 
Jennings is not playing like a starting PG, but like a 6th man! If he's not going to pass the damn rock and if he's not going to run the pick and roll, WTF did we trade BK7 for because we were getting that with better 3 point shooting and a positive influence in the locker room(not to mention a lot cheaper to boot)!
 
I don't see Josh Smith as any kind of problem, I see Josh Smith being the most affected player due to the recent changes. Specifically the addition of Jennings! That addition has cause the sharing of the ball to go from very good to almost nothing! In that environment, the bigs can't do their passing thing down low because the PG is dominating the ball!
 
IMO, big changes are not needed, but the small change I'm suggesting has a snowballs chance in hell of happening!
 
1. Start Stuckey at PG  
Maybe not yet.  I think Jennings needs a more dynamic running mate in the backcourt.  Someone with his level of quickness and aggressiveness to tag team with.

2. Start KCP at SG
He!! Yeah

3. Datome instead of Singler
He!! Yeah.  Sorry Cool Breeze 

That's it!!! I won't say problem solved, but problem gets a lot better! Oh, BTW, this improves our defense as well as our offense, IMO!
 
But doing that would take a hell of a lot of balls, and Cheeks would catch holy hell from Jennings & Joe if he was know to be even thinking this way!
Lemonpen are you serious relating to your comments about Josh Smith. Cheeks is seeing what I see on the floor. Smith is not moving without the ball. Jennings penetrates and you would think your star player would want the basketball. Not so it seems. And the reason why Singler is playing more is the simple reason that Smith cannot guard a small forward or at least is not showing that he cannot guard. This team can only win if all the players agree that the only way they can win is by playing really good physical defense. Smith started out playing hard but has been AWOL over the last two games. Before that, he had issues trying to guard small forwards though and maybe he is depressed believing he can't do the job and is only an asset playing power forward.

It seems that fans like to blame Singler for the failure of the team to win. But Singler is a glue guy who is supposed to play help defense, set screens, box out his man and rebound on the weak side as well as dive for loose balls. Fans seem to believe that this isn't important while Cheeks knows better. What isn't happening is the key scorers are not doing the job. Stuckey and Bynum have been part of a losing tradition. They don't pick up the switches which makes Smith look bad. This happened a lot in the Portland game where Stuckey was the worst offender. The problem remains that other teams will pick on Will Bynum when he enters the game because he is a weak defender. Other teams know all of Stuckey's moves and they also know he often goes blank on defense.

Datome is not the answer right now. Did you watch him play defense when he had his shot? He is not ready not to say he won't be down the road.

Jerebco was in the rotation and then out and has no sense of how he fits in with the team.  In my opinion Jerebco still offers a lot to the team because of his work ethic, speed and size.

Cheeks is experimenting with this team right now maybe because he doesn't like Smith's attitude on and off the court which was his problem in Atlanta. So far he hasn't found the right combinations. One adjustment has to be made relating to Stuckey and Bynum. Jennings and Stuckey seems like a good combination. Jennings and Bynum will not work because of defensive issues. Dumars has made it tough for his coach once again. I would just stick with KCP over Bynum and Stuckey and see where that goes. He offers more consistency and this guy is only a rookie.

Fans seem down on Jennings. I was against the trade but now really believe in Jennings. He wants to get better and has a fire in his belly unlike many of the other players. As Jennings is clearly the best player on this team right now, other players need to adjust to him especially Smith. Jennings is drawing at least 2 players his way on every possession which should be a great thing for a guy like Smith. But Smith either is not smart enough to make the proper cuts to get open or he is a lazy ass loser. I am leaning towards the later right now. Smith is not bringing an A game and he is getting paid to do that every damn night. It is time for the fans to start yelling at him to get his attention during the next home game.

This team needs to hold on together and play hard. Smith is the big money player and needs to lead with the proper emotion and work ethic.
You misread. My comments are in blue.
We are on the same page regarding J Smoove. I thought he hasn't been aggressive enough toward the basket, and was settling for the 3pt shot.

Since making the comments I have read that Josh has been encouraged by the staff to take the 3pt J as opposed to a long 2 pointer. They hope the higher point value evens out the low fg%. Seems like it might work better if we begin with Monroe as the featured guy until AD leaves then JS goes to work inside.
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BK7

Post  lemonpen on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:59 pm

Go Stones! wrote:My records show that Knight has only played in 3 games (really only 2) and has yet to hit a 3-pointer.  Sounds like he has the injury bug.
 

I believe he pulled a Hammy in the pre-season, and has been in and out since.
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Case For Stuckey Starting

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:51 pm

Wise, those were some very well compiled reasons, to make a case for Stuckey's improvement; they are the very reasons I believe he should be leading our 2nd unit. I've come around on Stuckey to the point that I'd like to keep him until seasons end, to see if his game is legitimately improving and he deserves to be resigned (which I know is the bottom line for you wanting him to start).

Stuckey's play has contributed mightily to the 2nd unit being a force to be reckoned with (those ferocious comebacks time and again), whereas Jennings would turn them into a rag-tag bunch of stand around players watching him be a one man wreaking crew, much like what Bynum does. I pass on Jennings as 6th man, because the team needs Stuckey's play off the bench. Keep in mind that Drummond (the most athletically gifted player on the team) and Singler (arguably the smartest, basketball wise) would be on the floor with Stuckey; add Monroe or Smith and Datome and we've got a competitive 2nd unit on the floor, playing like starters. IMHO those guys could kick last years Pistons starters ass, hands down.

My singular defense for Jennings is a simple one; 22 points and 11 assists, with 4 steals. The ease in which he did what...when was the last time we had a PG put up those type numbers?! Damn the shot-first endorsement from Joe, Mo Cheeks needs to be demanding consistency in playing the type of game that will make him an All-Star; 22, 11, and 4.
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Knight

Post  Go Stones! on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:41 pm

My records show that Knight has only played in 3 games (really only 2) and has yet to hit a 3-pointer. Sounds like he has the injury bug.
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