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Like rabbits pulled from a hat, Joe's moves keep mulltiplying

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:10 pm

Oracle wrote:
lemonpen wrote:Doesn’t the signing of Billups (for the duration of Knights contract) close the door on possibilities of acquiring Rondo, and indicate a strong organizational commitment to Knight as our PG going forward.  

Don, how R U feeliing about Joe D now.

I think it does signal that commitment, and it's a smart move! You have to go all in and either solidify the fact that Knight is the future here or eliminate him from the process, it's all up to Knight at this point!

The thing that's bothering me, but not too much, is that with the signing of Chauncey we have no additional slots for either Siva or English!

It bothers me because Siva is someone I want to keep past Chauncey's contract, but I've come to terms with letting English go!

So that means the only way for that to happen is for there to be a wholesale blood letting, and as per your earlier post, it's not the blood of an Englishman alone that I smell, it's also CV, Stuckey, Singler and JJ... addition by subtraction?

If we could get rid of those 4 and take back 1 with picks, or just multiple picks, I would be in heaven!

BTW, is there anyone else out there that doesn't believe that this is a playoff team already?
Thanks Oracle, for a minute there I felt abandoned and like I had lost my mind; after the rejection of Stuckey and CV by Toronto (of all teams) I realized that we'd have to include some quality players, in whatever trade proposal we made with Stuck and CV, in order for it to be considered. This was before the signing of Bynum, GiGi, and Chauncey, all good moves IMHO. It would be ridiculous to break up the established core group, just to rid the team of those two. After watching the Summer league, I saw some players who won't make the team, as currently constructed, but appear to better "fit" players than Stuckey, Villanueva, Singler (Kyle), and Jerebko. I personally think E.J. is the better Singler brother, and he doesn't stand a chance of sticking. Call Danny Ainge about the "fantastic four" for Rajon Rondo, if there's still any interest. Welcome back to the "D" Chauncey!!!!
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Summer League Game

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:59 pm

Impressive games from Drummond, Siva, Mitchel & KCP!

The raw stats:
Drummond(BTW, humans can't do this) - 23pts,18 boards,2 blocks, 2steals, and 1 assist! That's a good days work!!!

KCP - 15pts, 3 steals, 2 assists

Siva - 9pts, 9 assists, 7 steals, he got hurt, but I don't know how bad.(watch out BK7)

Mitchel - 7pts, 2 steals, 9 boards, he had the winning dunk!

Head over here to see Highlights of Drummond, Siva's impressive reverse layup, and Mitchel's game winner - Highlights
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Mr big shot in the ego is back

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:52 pm

Welcome back home Mr Big Shot in the Ego Billups. Good to see you back in A Pistons uniform.

Just like when Ben Wallace came back, we welcome you with open arms. I hope that Mr Big shot in the Ego is dead and C.Billups is the guy we are getting back.

This will be your last two season in the NBA as A player. I hope you can stay healthy and grab A executive position after your done playing. Maybe in Detroit.
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CB Contributions

Post  merc on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:33 pm

IMO Chauncey should be used as an emergency backup or when someone is not doing their job... let's not be blinded by his age limitations... great signing from a coaching perspective.
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Chauncey B-B-B-Billips!!!

Post  Sebastian on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:14 pm

I agree with Oracle, there's a trade a brewing.
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I can't wait until CB & Sheed....

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:38 pm

Teach these youngsters how to win!!!

Exciting times....
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Upon Further Review

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:52 pm

lemonpen wrote:Doesn’t the signing of Billups (for the duration of Knights contract) close the door on possibilities of acquiring Rondo, and indicate a strong organizational commitment to Knight as our PG going forward.  

Don, how R U feeliing about Joe D now.

I think it does signal that commitment, and it's a smart move! You have to go all in and either solidify the fact that Knight is the future here or eliminate him from the process, it's all up to Knight at this point!

The thing that's bothering me, but not too much, is that with the signing of Chauncey we have no additional slots for either Siva or English!

It bothers me because Siva is someone I want to keep past Chauncey's contract, but I've come to terms with letting English go!

So that means the only way for that to happen is for there to be a wholesale blood letting, and as per your earlier post, it's not the blood of an Englishman alone that I smell, it's also CV, Stuckey, Singler and JJ... addition by subtraction?

If we could get rid of those 4 and take back 1 with picks, or just multiple picks, I would be in heaven!

BTW, is there anyone else out there that doesn't believe that this is a playoff team already?
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Upon Further Review

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:53 am

Doesn’t the signing of Billups (for the duration of Knights contract) close the door on possibilities of acquiring Rondo, and indicate a strong organizational commitment to Knight as our PG going forward.

Don, how R U feeliing about Joe D now.
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CB Back? Who's next...

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:06 am

Oracle wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Signing Chauncey is big time,  this falls under the addition of another assistant coach except this one is on the court with the players.  This should help Knight tremendously in his development at the PG and it also provides solid veteran leadership and valued backup.  


Bison Dele? Hell at this rate, Joe just may be capable of bringing back the dead on a 10 day contract lol

BTW Wise, of course he can help Knight, but he also may be here to finish the job on Stuckey!
Lord knows we can use some of that 3 point shooting and that 90% FT shooting!

Hey, can we cut a deal with those corrupt refs and let CB shoot FT's for Drummond Smile?

Eight guys can be slotted as guards.  BK7, KCP, CB, Stuckey, Bynum, English, Siva, Middleton.  That's 2 more than typically held.  English is meat.  I'm not sure it makes sense to bring CB back to mentor the older of BK7 & Stuck.  In addition CB is under contract for a longer term than Stuck.

Based on our depth chart I believe CV, Stuck, Singler and Jonas are trade bait.
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WOW !!!!!

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:52 am

WISEFAN wrote:Signing Chauncey is big time,  this falls under the addition of another assistant coach except this one is on the court with the players.  This should help Knight tremendously in his development at the PG and it also provides solid veteran leadership and valued backup.  


Color me freakin ecstatic !!!!!!
We now have a shooter with a reputation that carries weight.  Weight to be respected by a defense.

The guard corp is FULLY covered.  With a roster of 17 I gotta believe trades are being explored for a 2nd tier PF/C.
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Guard Analysis ...

Post  Sebastian on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:38 am

deusXango wrote:It's universally acknowledged that Detroit now has an abundance of highly athletic big men, and over half of them are extremely skilled in low-post play; where are we at with our guard play, is the big question, across the board. Joe D has done a bang up job this year, but cleaning up the mess that he created in years past, has gone unaddressed, so far; when is he going to straighten out that "combo guard" mess? In order for our big men to be at their best, they need more than a combo guard directing the offense; this is not the team for a scoring first (ball hogging) PG either.

Rodney Stuckey, by virtue of being the senior guard on the team and was tagged to be the PG of the future (the future is now), should be the starter on opening night. His claim to be most effective with the ball in his hands can be put to good use; he no longer has to ponder what to do with the ball, or make those wild forays to the basket, just pass it into the post. On the break (which they should be plentiful) pass the ball up the floor, instead of driving down the court, in hopes of attacking the rim; that's not sound PG play! He's playing in front of a fan base that has concerns about earned money, so keep in mind that currently he's the highest paid guard on the Pistons. Start him and see what Cheeks can do with his development, the development that's been neglected by the last three coaches.
Brandon Knight, is the "new" combo guard on the block, to be transformed into a PG, not SG!! Even though he's a good spot up shooter, as a PG, his job will be to get others involved in the offense first, and spot up when the defense's start to collapse inside; he's one of the Pistons long range snipers to spread the floor. Given the lack of coaching he's had, and the fact there's a lot he needs to work on, 6th man is where he fits in best (IMHO).
Will Bynum and Payton Siva, are two uniquely gifted, spark-plug, PG's with radically different games; Bynum is a scorer, Siva is a facilitator. Either one can be plugged in by Coach Cheeks as the need dictates. Both of them can get to where they want to on the floor, with ease, and do what they do. IMO they should be valued enough to be kept on the team because, Bynum is the best finisher of all the PG's, and Siva is the only true PG on the team.

Khris Middleton, has been listed as a SF, but his skill set almost demands he play SG; we need big, long, athletic, floor spreading, SG's and we've got them. Albeit Middleton came to the team with Singler, he's a more athletic player, better defender, and more accurate shooter, so he gets my vote to start on opening night.
Kyle Singler, is a proven cerebral player, who has the ability to finish at the rim, and stretch the floor, with his outside shot; he's just not an athletic player. What Singler can do is play SG, SF, and some PF, when the team goes small, and play these positions without losing effectiveness.
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, is the latest lottery pick and should be protected and brought along slow, like Drummond was last year; by mid-season the starting SG spot should be his for the taking, if he can take it. If the team is rolling and chemistry has been developed, keep the rotation as is. He's a player who's day will come.
Kim English, was a guy I really pulled for and hoped he would bring to the Pistons what I saw at Missouri, alas it hasn't happened and I'm prepared to say good bye. Hard working, very likable young man, who, if he should go, I wish well.

This is how, to the best of my unbiased ability, I view the state of our guards and how Mo Cheeks (with Joe D's egging on) will deploy them in his rotation. Joe says that he's not done and I'm not going to speculate, because he's really pleasantly surprised me this summer, with the moves he's made. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked to see Jrue Holiday show up at a press conference.          

DX, I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of OUR current roster of guards. Also, Joe has done a marvelous job, actually since moving Tay and Daye. But he really would had gotten an A++ from me, if he were able to have gotten in on a deal with Philly that would have sent Jrue Holiday to the Palace.
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CB Back? Who's next...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:03 am

WISEFAN wrote:Signing Chauncey is big time,  this falls under the addition of another assistant coach except this one is on the court with the players.  This should help Knight tremendously in his development at the PG and it also provides solid veteran leadership and valued backup.  


Bison Dele? Hell at this rate, Joe just may be capable of bringing back the dead on a 10 day contract lol

BTW Wise, of course he can help Knight, but he also may be here to finish the job on Stuckey!

Lord knows we can use some of that 3 point shooting and that 90% FT shooting!

Hey, can we cut a deal with those corrupt refs and let CB shoot FT's for Drummond Smile?
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Trey Burke

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:56 am

I don't believe for one minute that Trey Burke won't turn this around!

The same thing happened to Darren Williams there and everybody started panicking all over the place!

Utah folks need to get a grip!
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On Burke

Post  WTF on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:52 am

I think there is a lot of over-thinking with concerns about Burke, IMO he'll adjust it really hard to gauge anyone's play in Summer League because of the minimum structure. We all know Burke isn't the most athletic of players but what we do know is that he's highly intelligent and great floor general who plays smart.

We won't see much smart play in Summer League because everyone is still fighting for roster spots on not only the team that drafted them or invited them but any team that might still be looking at them. Burke is already assure a spot in Utah simply by being a lottery selection, I think he show himself in training camp and not in Summer League games becuase those games are designed for players that are athletic.
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Boy Joe Is Own Top Of His Game

Post  WTF on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:41 am

Signing Chauncey is big time, this falls under the addition of another assistant coach except this one is on the court with the players. This should help Knight tremendously in his development at the PG and it also provides solid veteran leadership and valued backup.

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Trey Burke is really struggling

Post  deusXango on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:44 am

Oracle, your concerns are legitimate; Burke has to do better if he's worth two first round picks to Utah. All the knocks on Trey Burke prior to the draft are appearing to be shortcomings that can't be ignored in the pro game. Hopefully things will improve for him, like things seem to be turning around for our own Caldwell-Pope.

Raul Neto is a fine example of the line of thinking that even though this was considered to be a weak draft, picks from 6-35 were of equal ability; look at our two second rounder's for instance. Who's really not pleased with how we came out with those selections?

Rajon Rondo, in Mormon country? Say it ain't so.lol
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Trey Burke is really struggling

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:55 am

From Utah,

"Before I begin, let me say that I am not already off the bandwagon on Trey Burke. After observing his first two showings, however, I do have some tiny concerns. Most likely due to what is expected of him, I guess.

First concern: He has been blocked an awful lot. It seems like he cant always get his shot off and especially when he is around the rim. I am not sure that experience can always compensate for that. It frightens me because he lacks athleticism and is rather short.

Second Concern: Especially in the first game, he looked SLOW and not very athletic to say the least. He often looked like the slowest person on the floor. He was run down by a summer league PF on a fast break. I nearly had an aneurism when that happened. Either he wasnt trying too hard or it could turn out to be a big problem.

Third Concern: I am not saying Neto will be better or anything, but I was a little concerned that he was able to pick up the offense so quickly without practicing with the team while Trey Burke has really struggled to figure it out thus far. He has played two games and had a full week of practice prior to that.
I dont want to be a debbie downer, but somebody please talk some sense into me. Am I overthinking this or are other fans concerned as well? Please comment…" - Trey Burke Questions

The comments are as you would expect, some saying he'll get better, others more concerned!

More detailed Info here- Utah Jazz: Raul Neto gets to shine while Trey Burke observes from the pine

and here - Utah Jazz: With Burke on bench, Neto shines in first appearance

In related news: Utah Jazz Rumors: Team Targeting Rajon Rondo?
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Guards & Burke

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:53 pm

DX, IMO, Knight is a PG without a doubt, but he also has to prove it to me and others!

Having said that, I liked what you said and 6th man is also a valid position, so we have no problem there.

Siva is WAY better than I thought, and is quietly having a great SL! He's cool, calm and collected as a distributor, and the only knock on him so far is that he won't shoot much(imagine that Smile, we're never satisfied)!

As a matter of fact, when Knight looked to facilitate early last season he got the same complaint, so he started shooting more!
 
Speaking of guards, how in the world does a #1 pick(Burke) get a DNPCD in summer league?

Are they sitting him for him to clear his head? WTF is the deal!
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Guards

Post  deusXango on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:24 pm

It's universally acknowledged that Detroit now has an abundance of highly athletic big men, and over half of them are extremely skilled in low-post play; where are we at with our guard play, is the big question, across the board. Joe D has done a bang up job this year, but cleaning up the mess that he created in years past, has gone unaddressed, so far; when is he going to straighten out that "combo guard" mess? In order for our big men to be at their best, they need more than a combo guard directing the offense; this is not the team for a scoring first (ball hogging) PG either.

Rodney Stuckey, by virtue of being the senior guard on the team and was tagged to be the PG of the future (the future is now), should be the starter on opening night. His claim to be most effective with the ball in his hands can be put to good use; he no longer has to ponder what to do with the ball, or make those wild forays to the basket, just pass it into the post. On the break (which they should be plentiful) pass the ball up the floor, instead of driving down the court, in hopes of attacking the rim; that's not sound PG play! He's playing in front of a fan base that has concerns about earned money, so keep in mind that currently he's the highest paid guard on the Pistons. Start him and see what Cheeks can do with his development, the development that's been neglected by the last three coaches.
Brandon Knight, is the "new" combo guard on the block, to be transformed into a PG, not SG!! Even though he's a good spot up shooter, as a PG, his job will be to get others involved in the offense first, and spot up when the defense's start to collapse inside; he's one of the Pistons long range snipers to spread the floor. Given the lack of coaching he's had, and the fact there's a lot he needs to work on, 6th man is where he fits in best (IMHO).
Will Bynum and Payton Siva, are two uniquely gifted, spark-plug, PG's with radically different games; Bynum is a scorer, Siva is a facilitator. Either one can be plugged in by Coach Cheeks as the need dictates. Both of them can get to where they want to on the floor, with ease, and do what they do. IMO they should be valued enough to be kept on the team because, Bynum is the best finisher of all the PG's, and Siva is the only true PG on the team.

Khris Middleton, has been listed as a SF, but his skill set almost demands he play SG; we need big, long, athletic, floor spreading, SG's and we've got them. Albeit Middleton came to the team with Singler, he's a more athletic player, better defender, and more accurate shooter, so he gets my vote to start on opening night.
Kyle Singler, is a proven cerebral player, who has the ability to finish at the rim, and stretch the floor, with his outside shot; he's just not an athletic player. What Singler can do is play SG, SF, and some PF, when the team goes small, and play these positions without losing effectiveness.
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, is the latest lottery pick and should be protected and brought along slow, like Drummond was last year; by mid-season the starting SG spot should be his for the taking, if he can take it. If the team is rolling and chemistry has been developed, keep the rotation as is. He's a player who's day will come.
Kim English, was a guy I really pulled for and hoped he would bring to the Pistons what I saw at Missouri, alas it hasn't happened and I'm prepared to say good bye. Hard working, very likable young man, who, if he should go, I wish well.

This is how, to the best of my unbiased ability, I view the state of our guards and how Mo Cheeks (with Joe D's egging on) will deploy them in his rotation. Joe says that he's not done and I'm not going to speculate, because he's really pleasantly surprised me this summer, with the moves he's made. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked to see Jrue Holiday show up at a press conference.
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Guards

Post  Sparma on Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:44 pm

Thanks Oracle.

I'm torn on Knight now that the roster is taking shape. On the one hand, it'd be nice to entrust all that firepower to a Rondo (but no way would I give up Monroe for him), but on the other I think this season (and next) is Knight's best shot at making real progress as PG. With passers like Monroe and Smith in there, Knight just may be able to make it in the first unit. Some competition would be good, I agree. Personally, I think guys already on the roster could push him as PG, if given sufficient opportunity. It's going to be interesting to see if Bynum reverts to his ballhogging ways after playing for a contract last year; I really liked his play last year, especially with Drummond. Maybe a contract year for Stuckey could get him unstuck?
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Monroe

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:39 pm

Moose is really the odd man out right now!

He's now the only big that not athletic, even Slava is close or has a slight edge!

Moose HAS to get that jumper going or become a Bill Walton type and start passing from the high post, but even that is limited without that jumper!

IMO, both Moose & Knight are on the hot seat. Moose mostly because of his contract, and Knight because he won't get the time Conley got(5 years), because the pitch forks are out now after less than 2 full seasons!
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Memphis and Conley

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:30 pm

Sparma, I really liked that post, and agree with you a lot!

While I think Knight can make the transition, I would still like to see Joe get some powerful competition in here to push Knight!

I don't want Rondo, but I wouldn't kick him off the team either! I just think a really good PG capable of taking Knight's job would be a strong incentive for his growth and our success!

Hell, between Moose & Smith, whoever gets their midrange jumper together first will become a much more valuable player, so Moose needs to get to work!

BTW, I'm really excited about this coming season too!
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Memphis and Conley

Post  Sparma on Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:02 pm

I like the comparison of the Pistons and the Grizzlies and even the comparison of Knight and Conley, in the article cited by a couple of posters. I'm optimistic about the Pistons' prospects for the season, and I believe Knight will make a forward move.

But the numbers suggest the need for caution. During his first two seasons as "near-bust", Conley had T.O. to assist ratios of 2.47 and 2.52 (2.41 in his third season); Knight's ratios have been 1.46 and 1.49. I'd be pleased as punch if Knight could reach the 2.4+ ratio which featured prominently in Conley's "near-bust" early performance.

In his next three seasons, Conley had ratios of 2.95, 3.25, and 2.54. His ratio as last season's "near-All Star" was nearly the same as during his second year as "near-bust."

Also, Conley's genuine leap from his worst (3rd) season to his best (5th) season is less of a leap than Knight moving from his best to Conley's worst (3rd season) would be.

"if Knight can follow Mike Conley's path from near-bust to near-All-Star predicated predominantly on smart, restrained offensive play and good defense. Conley struggled his first three seasons, but improved a lot in Year 4. Like Knight, he entered the league at quite a young age, and arrived on an awful team with little direction. In Detroit, the direction is beginning to take shape."
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We're down to fighting weight

Post  merc on Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:00 pm

I find it ironic that Smoove says he had no winners around him... yet that's exactly the situation here... I wonder how he'll get along with "The mouth" (Sheed).
So what are we lacking to-date?...
* Experience & cohesion- With several new & young players they simply haven't learned how to compliment each other... expecting a ton of t.o.s as they learn a new system and teammate's tendencies.... The playoff competition has had a couple of dropouts (Atlanta & Boston) but I'm not getting my hopes up this year... there are simply too many variables that have to line up properly for this to be a confident playoff team.

* Facilitators- Not just from the PG position... it's strange that our two best passers are in the front court... which is helpful the way teams will collapse inside knowing we have some suspect shooters (I'm from Missouri you're gonna have to prove it). What kind of magic will Mo Cheeks drop on BK?... I know he's all about pressure D from his PGs (Mo's M.O. :^)... I'm far from convinced that BK has the mechanics and vision to lay a soft dime in someones sweet spot consistently.... this is our biggest question and need at the moment... they showed no confidence in Brandon when Calderon went down (instead handed the reigns over to Stuckey)... you know Stuckey, the same Bull in a china shop with tunnel vision... you gotta believe that Joe is not satisfied with this position... but go ahead and give Brandon enough rope to create his own destiny... Our eyes will be firmly planted on the artist formerly know as Mr. T.O. Shocked

* Stretching the floor- Until this team can keep 'em honest there will be no room in the paint... would also like to see BK get back to the floater that he was known for in college or we will lead the L in charges.... we can't blame Monroe, Dre & Smith for lack of production until we have three guys (including Smith) that are a threat from range... This is also supposed to be the year that Monroe has a respectable mid range game... this is critical for Dre to get his bunnies and putbacks.

On a positive note this should be a top 3 rebounding team (especially on offense)... and we should be ranked high on hustle 50/50 balls.

Put a top notch PG on this team and they should be a solid 5th seed in 2014/15.... for now it's a major learning year.
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Very Good News!!!!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:12 pm

"He wanted to be here," Dumars said of the former Atlanta Hawk. "I mean, I'm saying I had to do some selling, but the meeting was interesting because he was selling himself. And I told him, 'No no no, you don't have to sell yourself. We want you here.' And he's like, 'No, I really, really want to be in Detroit. I've never been away from Atlanta, born and raised there and I'm excited.'" - New Detroit Piston Josh Smith says Joe Dumars 'had me sold from the word go'
 
That tells me that Josh Smith is growing up and realizes that he needs to make his mark now, with a winning organization!

Message to Joe: I love the new talent on this team, but by the Feb Deadline, we need another "Alpha" scorer at the PG or SG position to compliment Smith's talent if the youngsters aren't stepping up!

If that happens then I'll believe what Wise said about being 4th best in the east, otherwise it's somewhere around 6-7th best, which is a HUGE improvement from where we were!

Edit:
Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois

Joe D on roster: "We like it but it's not there yet. This is not it. We've got more stuff to do. We'll continue throughout the whole (more)... summer trying to squeeze the roster and make sure this roster is exactly like we want it going into the season."
12:23 PM - 10 Jul 2013
Keith Langlois @Keith_Langlois

Smith's personality appealed to Joe D: "This guy’s got an edge. Boy Scout he is not .. and that’s exactly what this team needs rights now."
12:26 PM - 10 Jul 2013
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